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2 years ago Oct 12,2022, 15:01:16 PM

Together We Rule: Embassies and Reinforcements

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Together We Rule releases early next month, so it’s time for us to talk in a bit more detail about the features. But there’s a lot to cover: Embassies, Agents, and the Congress of Humankind, but also third party reinforcements, the new stealth system, and the improved independent people. So we’ll be spreading this closer look across multiple posts over the next few weeks, and this week, we’ll start with some cooperation and some conflict.

 

Together We Rule: Embassies, Agreements, and Leverage 

In Together We Rule, Embassies will open new ways to conduct diplomacy with other empires. 

Once you have met at least one other player, you will be able to construct an Embassy district in one of your cities to receive their delegations and house your own. Don’t worry, you’ll only need one of these, no matter how many other players you’re dealing with.


Diplomats have gathered in this plaza for generations

 

This will give you access to the new Embassy tab in the diplomacy screen which will give you access to new diplomatic interactions. If both you and the other player control an embassy, you can sign cooperative Agreements between your empires. For example, you can sign an Arms Deal that allows you to train the other empire’s Emblematic unit, at some additional money cost paid to the other empire. Or you could sign a Scientific Correspondence Agreement, giving each a discount on technologies already researched by the other empire. Here’s an overview of the Agreements you can expect: 

  • Scientific Correspondence: Each empire gets a discount on technologies already researched by the other empire. 
  • Arms Deal: Each empire can build the Emblematic Units of the other, for an additional cost in Money. 
  • Monumental Contractors: Each empire can contribute to the Cultural Wonders of the other empire, gaining their choice of Money, Influence, or Leverage based on their contribution. 
  • Diplomatic Cooperation: Some of the leverage collected by each empire is shared with the other. 
  • Refugee Agreement: When either empire loses population, the other receives a Food and Industry bonus on their capital. 



Even if the other empire doesn’t have an embassy of their own, you’ll have some options at your disposal in the embassy screen to impose your will on them by using Leverage. You could Placate them to lower their war support when trouble is brewing with your neighbors, but maybe you are tired of them playing the waiting game and would rather force them to respond to your demands. As the game progresses, you will unlock more advanced ways to put pressure on other empires. Here’s what you can impose on other empires: 

  • Placate: Lower the other empire’s war support. 
  • Expel Military Forces: Temporarily restrict the other empire’s access to your territory while maintaining the Open Borders treaty. 
  • Diplomatic Ultimatum: Force the other empire to accept or refuse your outstanding demands this turn. 
  • Expose Undercover Assets: Mark the current location of every hidden army the other empire has in your territory with a map pin. 
  • Apply Economic Sanctions: Apply an empire-wide penalty to Industry and Money to the other empire. 


So, you need leverage to “convince” the other empire, but what is leverage and how do you get it? It’s a new resource that represents various means of pressuring others into agreeing with you, from dirty secrets to favors owed. You Agents will be crucial to collecting this leverage, so we will tell you more about it next time. 



Metternich Update: Third Party Reinforcements 

Signing an Arms Deal to let your ally train your powerful emblematic unit (and making some cash in the process) is nice, but sometimes you need to immediately come to their aid to save them. That’s here the new third party reinforcements in the Metternich update come in handy. 

If you are allied to one party in a battle, you will now be able to move your armies into the battlefield to add them to the fight. Once there, they can join the battle like any other reinforcement army. But too many generals would cause confusion, so as your units join the battle, control of them will be handed over to your ally to use them like their own units. 

What if you want to intervene in a battle where you are allied to both sides and “shift your allegiance”? We’re afraid both parties would consider that unsportsmanlike, so you’ll have to formally dissolve one of your alliances first. No equal opportunity attacks or mid-battle betrayals. 

 

Then the Winged Hussars arrived...

 

That’s all for this week. Next week, we’ll be looking at the new Agents and the reworked stealth system, so come back then if you are feeling sneaky! 

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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 8:27:08 AM

I'm quite puzzled by the Refugee Agreement.


All others agreements feel cooperatives and rewarding for both empires, each allied empire gaining something from the agreement.

On the other hand, for this one, the sentence seems to imply a penalty for ally A and a bonus for ally B, which is surprising.


It might be the wording, or a typo maybe ? Wouldn't it rather be "When either empire gains population, the other receives a Food and Industry bonus on their capital" instead ?


Would you mind giving us more details/explanations on this one @Daarkarrow , @The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales ?


Thank you !

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Oct 19, 2022, 1:26:41 PM
Durkie wrote:

One other question you have to be allied to join a battle, but you don’t have to be at war with the enemy in the battle? 

And how about third party bombardments? Would it be possible to shell enemy units in a battle with your ally?

For the first question, no need to be at war no. And if you are allied to both side, you need to break the alliance with one of them in order to support the other side.

Regarding the bombardments, nop, that won't be possible

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2 years ago
Oct 15, 2022, 8:09:59 AM

Hmmm... some form of hijacking the battle? If you contribute more CS than your Ally, you gain command? Would still not help for MP battles, where there's dozen of armies involved, but I still think that Generals and army limits should be introduced (re-introduced? I'm fairly sure it was a thing during very early OpenDev) same way we have city admins.

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2 years ago
Oct 15, 2022, 7:21:57 AM

Third party reinforcement sounds great. The only downside for me when playing singleplayer I would‘t be that eager to hand my units over to the AI. A setting where you can take over the command of an battle when you use third party reinforcement would be a great addition in my opinion.


One other question you have to be allied to join a battle, but you don’t have to be at war with the enemy in the battle? 


And how about third party bombardments? Would it be possible to shell enemy units in a battle with your ally?

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2 years ago
Oct 14, 2022, 2:07:55 AM

I've been hoping for third-party reinforcements since day one, so cool to see how it's being added. It'll be a game-changer for those of us who play against the AI with friends, and could make combat trickier for if the AI teams up for us. Thanks for adding it! Great addition. 

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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 4:08:41 PM
Daarkarrow wrote:
Judgemental_Soldier wrote:

But what happens when you capture someone else's embassy?
Or, if (or if it can) is destroyed by a ransacking/bombardment?

Okay so if you destroy an embassy you will generate a grievance to all empires that have Traties with the owner of the embassy. And if you capture a city in which the Embassy is settled this one will be destroy (cannot have 2 embassies) and will generate the same grievances as is destroyed.
For the other side, all treaties will stop and automatically resume once you build again an Embassy


Thanks, good to know.

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 3:07:31 PM
Daarkarrow wrote:
First one:)
My cities are starving, they're loosing population -> my ally will gain a food and industry bonus

Thank you for the answer, much appreciated !


That wouldn't have made sense for the others situations, the mechanic is much clearer now, thanks again.

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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 3:07:07 PM
Daarkarrow wrote:
Judgemental_Soldier wrote:

But what happens when you capture someone else's embassy?
Or, if (or if it can) is destroyed by a ransacking/bombardment?

Okay so if you destroy an embassy you will generate a grievance to all empires that have Traties with the owner of the embassy. And if you capture a city in which the Embassy is settled this one will be destroy (cannot have 2 embassies) and will generate the same grievances as is destroyed.
For the other side, all treaties will stop and automatically resume once you build again an Embassy

Romani0 wrote:

My understanding is that Third Party Reinforcements would be part of a free update, not the expansion.. right? Fair move :)

Yes

Romani0 wrote:

I understand it can be complicated, but it would help if we knew the reasons behind why reinforcements were made this way. It would be much better of course if we could engage in the battle ourselves controlling our own units.

We know that part of the community was waiting for this (simultaneous wars) rather than a "lending" but we realized that battles could take a loooot of time, and we know that there are battles that are quite longer than it should (a lot of troops involved) so we decided that 1 person will be much easier when controlling the armies/strategies + the who its moving first, should it be your "friend" and then your, the other way around etc.

Won't the support mechanism of the war change again in the short term?

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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 2:45:06 PM
Waykot wrote:

Losing population, as in :

- My cities are starving, they're loosing population -> my ally will gain a food and industry bonus ?

- I'm building units, my cities' population is decreasing -> my ally will gain a food and industry bonus ? 

- My pesky agrarian neighbour keeps stealing population from my cities -> my ally will gain a food and industry bonus ? 


Just to be clearer, I understand the intend behind the "Refugee agreement", which is obviously to give your ally an incentive to help you if you're in a difficult situation, since, for instance, they'll be able to provide you with units with the third-party reinforcement mechanic, in case of war for example.


I understand if it works that way for starving cities, since we can assume population will leave a starving city, and find a better place to leave, hence providing bonuses to the new city they're joining (the food and industry bonus to the ally).


I'm curious nonetheless to understand better the mechanic, hence my questionning above about other ways to loose population, do they also apply ?


Thanks !

First one:)
My cities are starving, they're loosing population -> my ally will gain a food and industry bonus

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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 9:54:50 AM

Losing population, as in :

- My cities are starving, they're loosing population -> my ally will gain a food and industry bonus ?

- I'm building units, my cities' population is decreasing -> my ally will gain a food and industry bonus ? 

- My pesky agrarian neighbour keeps stealing population from my cities -> my ally will gain a food and industry bonus ? 


Just to be clearer, I understand the intent behind the "Refugee agreement", which is obviously to give your ally an incentive to help you if you're in a difficult situation, since, for instance, they'll be able to provide you with units with the third-party reinforcement mechanic, in case of war for example.


I understand if it works that way for starving cities, since we can assume population will leave a starving city, and find a better place to leave, hence providing bonuses to the new city they're joining (the food and industry bonus to the ally).


I'm curious nonetheless to understand better the mechanic, hence my questionning above about other ways to loose population, do they also apply ?


Thanks !

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 9:38:35 AM
Waykot wrote:

I'm quite puzzled by the Refugee Agreement.


All others agreements feel cooperatives and rewarding for both empires, each allied empire gaining something from the agreement.

On the other hand, for this one, the sentence seems to imply a penalty for ally A and a bonus for ally B, which is surprising.


It might be the wording, or a typo maybe ? Wouldn't it rather be "When either empire gains population, the other receives a Food and Industry bonus on their capital" instead ?


Would you mind giving us more details/explanations on this one @Daarkarrow , @The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales ?


Thank you !

Nop, its when losing population.


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2 years ago
Oct 12, 2022, 4:28:35 PM

But what happens when you capture someone else's embassy?
Or, if (or if it can) is destroyed by a ransacking/bombardment?

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 8:09:33 AM
Judgemental_Soldier wrote:

But what happens when you capture someone else's embassy?
Or, if (or if it can) is destroyed by a ransacking/bombardment?

Okay so if you destroy an embassy you will generate a grievance to all empires that have Traties with the owner of the embassy. And if you capture a city in which the Embassy is settled this one will be destroy (cannot have 2 embassies) and will generate the same grievances as is destroyed.
For the other side, all treaties will stop and automatically resume once you build again an Embassy

Romani0 wrote:

My understanding is that Third Party Reinforcements would be part of a free update, not the expansion.. right? Fair move :)

Yes

Romani0 wrote:

I understand it can be complicated, but it would help if we knew the reasons behind why reinforcements were made this way. It would be much better of course if we could engage in the battle ourselves controlling our own units.

We know that part of the community was waiting for this (simultaneous wars) rather than a "lending" but we realized that battles could take a loooot of time, and we know that there are battles that are quite longer than it should (a lot of troops involved) so we decided that 1 person will be much easier when controlling the armies/strategies + the who its moving first, should it be your "friend" and then your, the other way around etc.

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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 3:39:46 AM
Josean wrote:

What you think is a refugee agreement: population circulation 

The actual refugee agreement: bonus

What you thought were economic sanctions: shutting down individual trade items

Actual economic sanctions: penalties

The third party entry forced into the camp second choice, the player can not independently as a force to join the battlefield, this will become the main flaw of this game, the developer does not make mechanical updates, we mod developers are subject to huge restrictions on the creation. Game fever continues to freeze, and then the game will go to death. (I originally thought this dlc would be a sign of humankind's reverse rise.)

You don't think that's cooooooool, do you?

Totally agree!

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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 3:14:22 AM

We need an update of the underlying mechanics, not a simple formula to bring the value

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2 years ago
Oct 13, 2022, 3:12:26 AM

What you think is a refugee agreement: population circulation 

The actual refugee agreement: bonus

What you thought were economic sanctions: shutting down individual trade items

Actual economic sanctions: penalties

The third party entry forced into the camp second choice, the player can not independently as a force to join the battlefield, this will become the main flaw of this game, the developer does not make mechanical updates, we mod developers are subject to huge restrictions on the creation. Game fever continues to freeze, and then the game will go to death. (I originally thought this dlc would be a sign of humankind's reverse rise.)

You don't think that's cooooooool, do you?

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2 years ago
Oct 12, 2022, 8:39:14 PM

I remember having read an explanation from a dev in the game ideas forum, but can't find it back. I think the devs can better give the same explanation here before all the great improvements from the DLC and update gets less attention than the missed opportunity for the third party reinforcements :). I too found it a dissapointment because at first the choice in the battle system looked much better than in a CIV-game, but if it stays too much 2-sided, I'm afraid that you get more the feeling battling together in Civ games. It can't be solved in a kind of alternating turns depending on who's the attacker, defender at first and who joins the battle? Or a kind of initiative system (per player/army) like in D&D-games?

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2 years ago
Oct 12, 2022, 7:41:59 PM

Third Party Reinforcements are a step into right direction, but fingers crossed that further down the line we'll get joint wars or, at the very least, ability to give territories to third party at a conclusion of war, so that as a result of my (separate, unfortunately) war against someone attacking my ally I can give back territories my ally will inevitably lose before I even get there, rather than having weakened ally and a choice of taking territories I have no interest in.


This whole thing sounds like a real winner, though, hope it delivers. Update addresses a lot of stuff that was needed, DLC mechanics sound like they'll be a lot of fun and add some much-needed interactions for peacetime.

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2 years ago
Oct 12, 2022, 7:34:52 PM

My understanding is that Third Party Reinforcements would be part of a free update, not the expansion.. right? Fair move :)

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2 years ago
Oct 12, 2022, 7:27:37 PM

Quoting Bartandules from this steam post which is exactly my first impression:
"I love the content for this expansion and I'm very excited for it, but I'm a bit let down by the third party reinforcements. It has been one of my largest wants for the game, but this implementation, while helpful, is not as exciting for my group as I hoped. Giving units to other players is nowhere near as exciting as interacting with one another on the battlefield. I could understand this being a toggled option, but I want to fight alongside my allies. Not just take their units. Not to mention, when playing with randoms, this may allow that player to throw away the other person's army. Sacrificing them before their own troops. Also, late game battles can get quite long and sometimes have climactic fights for major cities. Having players sit on the sidelines and watch someone else have fun with their units I think is a poor choice."


I understand it can be complicated, but it would help if we knew the reasons behind why reinforcements were made this way. It would be much better of course if we could engage in the battle ourselves controlling our own units.

Updated 2 years ago.
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