Fist of all thanks to Amplitude - this is a great experience. It is also really cool to see Stadia being used for this trial. Of course it sucks that in some countries Stadia is not available, but I think the management decision to try something like this on a google platform I think really is very intelligent. Now having said this, I of course like the play very much. But I have to say the transition to new cultures is too quick for me. I am probably able to build two or so Nubian archers but not necessarly even an emblamatic quarter before the turn to another culture. Perhaps this is all because of game speed and map size etc, but frankly I am a bit worried I cannot really delve into the cultures before a new one pops up..... Any views?
I agree completely. I felt that I didn't get a chance to really feel comfortable with my culture before I advanced. It made the emblamatic quaters and units feel realyl weak and unininteresting when they really aren't. I tried to prioritize building emblamatic quaters as the nubians but even then I only ended up building a few. Even after playing through the scenario several times, it all happened so fast and it felt like I could be playing any culture.
Yeah, I feel its a bit sad that I cannot even activate the culture's special ability...... within a reasonable time frame . It's not really game changing, but still feels like a lot of ideas of developers went into something that players cannot really activate or make good use of....
I'm fairly confident that for the Stadia demo the gamespeed was set to be faster. We also know that there will be different speeds at which one can go at release.
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Game pacing is one of the dev's bigger focuses right now. They are currently balancing FIMS and era stars to make the pacing more even. By default the game ends in 350 turns, and the current maximum is 600. For reference games of Civ 6 range from 250 - 1500 turns. So Humankind in it's current state is very fast.
Although Humankind's pacing seems to be quite fast, allowing cultures to progress into their next culture "early" appears to be intentional.
Each culture needs to accumulate 7 of 21 stars within a given era. As the win condition of Humankind is fame and not rushing to the end game technology or culture, players must make the choice to transition early or transition later to avoid leaving behind fame. Note that cultures knocked out of the game (low city number, zero cities, became irrelevant, etc.) can "win" by having more fame as it cannot be taken away once acquired.
This leads to the interesting problem of "When is the optimal time to transition?"
- Does a player forgo early fame to grab better units quickly to focus on later expansion/military fame stars?
- Should players delay and construct as many emblematic quarters as possible to optimize yields before they lose that ability?
This dilemma intentionally effects the pace of the game and lets players decide what time/era they start focusing on fame. I think fame/star amounts should be slightly raised to 10/21 stars to prevent players from going too fast. Optimizations (sling shots, REXing, etc.) is inevitable whether the devs like it or not thus erroring on the side of slow can compensate for those advancements.
What is going to happen:
Players are going to CIV, rush to the end, and find that fame generation there is low. To have a chance to "win," obstructionist plays will become necessary to prevent others from acquiring fame
Wow, so you can get 21 stars worth of fame in each era?!
That really needs to be made clearer as it's fundamentally different to how other games in the genre play, where you actually want to advance slowly and take your time in order to 'win'. They really need to make the era star screen clearer as it's absolutely not a clean design at the moment.
I'm a bit worried as I would say with more 4xs I want to just play and enjoy the epic story of a nation or whatever I create. Intentionally going slower to get more fame seems quite counter intuitive. I mean, I hardly ever finish a 4x game, so will I even care about fame? I'd rather play a slower game that's more fun than a fast one I always finish.
On the other hand, maybe it's an excellent way to balance the game. More casual people rush through and don't care, but if you're a min-maxer then you have to intentionally hobble yourself to get all the bonus fame, so the game becomes more difficult the more you care about winning.
Obviously, I presume the speed in the demo is the fastest possible as it's ridiculous. It becomes very easy to build everything in a turn, sometimes two things in one turn, which leads to a lot of busy work and less interesting choices (if you can just have everything)
They really need to make the era star screen clearer as it's absolutely not a clean design at the moment.
More casual people rush through and don't care, but if you're a min-maxer then you have to intentionally hobble yourself to get all the bonus fame, so the game becomes more difficult the more you care about winning.
Min/maxing fame doesn't mean hobbling yourself for every drop; they'll take the low/mid hanging fruits and move on. Also, it doesn't take that long to collect the 21 ancient stars which nets about 3,500 fame total. Achieved that by turn 37 in the stadia opendev (and moved on):
The pace right now seems good, but to acquire all 21 stars means not researching or expanding till the next era at times.
Transitioning at the earliest possible time (7 stars atm) could be an optimal play to get to more important techs (administrators, units, etc.).
Adding more notifications about how the game is won is a good suggestion which needs to be made brutally clear to all players before the start of the game.
We'll see, but I hope the game has opened up a bit more for you now.
Tainted wrote: Transitioning at the earliest possible time (7 stars atm) could be an optimal play to get to more important techs (administrators, units, etc.).
But isn't that based on the tech tree itself? Which, from my experience with three playthroughs so far, isn't really tied to the era system?
Tainted wrote: Transitioning at the earliest possible time (7 stars atm) could be an optimal play to get to more important techs (administrators, units, etc.).
But isn't that based on the tech tree itself? Which, from my experience with three playthroughs so far, isn't really tied to the era system?
The Tech tree is limited by the era of your culture. Most cultures can only research techs. of their era but science civs can research techs. one era ahead.
If your a builder civ and complete the all the techs of your era, your research stops and science accumulates (to a certain amount?) till you advance.
I'm sure it's just to be able to show us the most things in 99 turns max. It's way too fast for a normal gameplay, especially when I think that I'm in the middle of Civ IV game on 2986th turn on the beginning of the industrial era (I slowed the slowest game speed myself tinkering the files). I can only hope Humankind will allow such tinkering as well.
Eulogos wrote: By default the game ends in 350 turns, and the current maximum is 600.
I think this needs to be increased at least 1.5x-2x. Right now the game feels too hectic, plus the era stars and era transitions don't feel like an achievement - they just happen regardless of what you do.
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