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evolution of weapons and the evolution of military affairs

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4 years ago
Dec 19, 2020, 8:08:56 PM

Hello everyone!The existing system of military affairs in Humankind, in my opinion, does not fully convey the process of evolution of weapons and the evolution of military affairs.

Why I don't like the existing system:

1) The difference between the warriors of the same time is not noticeable. An example is the difference between the cavalry of Ancient Rome and Parthia.

2) The difference between troops with the same equipment1, but different types of formation3 is not shown. Example: Battle of Newport, where old-style Spanish troops and more modern Dutch troops clashed.

These two points can be achieved by upgrading the unit customization system with Endless Legend. Limit the number of platforms2 and enter the characteristic "formation3".

With this, it is possible to implement such historical types of troops as, for example, horse crossbowmen and dragoons.

 

3) It is possible to produce more modern equipment in old factories. The ability to produce machine guns in forges sounds absurd)

To prevent this, it is necessary to make sure that before training new units, it will be necessary to build an industrial enterprise that produced the necessary equipment. For example, to produce spears and shields at a sawmill, swords and armor at a forge, cuirasses and muskets at factories, etc.

 

However, there is a need to somehow highlight unique units. In my opinion this can be done in two tutorials:

1) Fix certain combinations of platform and equipment.

2) Introduce unique equipment and formations. For example: hoplon (round shield) for the Greeks, tercio for the Spaniards.

 

 

1) Equipment - weapons (sword) and protection (cuirass).

2) Platform - foot warrior or horseman.

3) Formation - this term better combines "line-up" (conveys the difference between the phalanx and linear tactics) and "organization" (conveys the difference between the militia and the regular army).


Thanks for attention)

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4 years ago
Dec 19, 2020, 9:28:00 PM

Considering how well arms races were captured in their other games, especially Endless Space 2, I'm surprised Amplitude totally did away with unit chassis, resource-specific equipment upgrades, and battle tactics cards. I'd love for Humankind to implement all of those in its own way. Hoping they had to go with something simpler for launch and are planning on upgrading that side of the game in future patches or DLC.


For your third point, you could argue that researching the required tech and gaining access to the required strategic resource(s) represents everything that goes on behind the scenes to make fielding that unit possible. The build queue already gets cluttered and they need to be careful about adding more fuss there, especially if they eventually add some of the other fussy systems we want.


But yeah, upgrading a fleet with cutting edge equipment in Endless Space 2 and shredding the first couple enemy fleets you run into is really satisfying and hopefully Humankind gets something comparable.

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4 years ago
Dec 20, 2020, 12:03:59 AM

As much as you are correct, I disagree with need for implementing this level of detail into the game.


At its core Humankind is highly abstract. Excluding Settlers unit every unit effect is a passive one, outposts are made by anyone, additional actions are only unlocked via cultural decisions and even these are rare. Why bother with high fidelity in a game that streamlines little decisions into few big ones? In my opinion it'd only add meaningless clicks that bring nothing to the gameplay except for making things historically accurate? Unless games are micro management heavy they must make a lot of simplifications.

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4 years ago
Jan 10, 2021, 3:32:28 PM

well, you almost depict the current unit tree. So I don't really see the plus value of your equipment tree.


And it's not accurate either. In humankind, you unlock the two handed medieval infrantry in same time than the "Heavy Infantry" tech. Which is legit, two handed weapons only started to be common in same time than armors were enough efficient. Without efficient armors, you stay with a shield and an one handed weapon.

You system allow to have light infantry with longsword, which is rather wacky. Or cavalry with early arquebus (they will fall of their horse with the kick of the shot)


Currently we have bowmen -> crossbowmen -> arquebusier - > musketeer -> [unknown content] in the game

Your system just add the composite bow, than some units alreadyy have ... Like Mongolian cavalry.

At least add the javelin or the slinger, to get some new things.


Your system just add an overwhelming system of equipment on units, which make them harder to balance, and need to come back on all units of the game.

Personnally, I just prefer having more generic units and more cultures with emblematic units later, instead of your system which almost don't have any plus value.

I mean, Endless Legends needed this system, because there was less units, and it fit well with the fantasy universe.


If you want these sort of system, you need to focus precisely on a period of history, like heart of iron 4, which is the sort of game where you devellop each model of equipment, guns, ...etc


And some of your exemples are misleading. What do you mean "The difference between the warriors of the same time is not noticeable. An example is the difference between the cavalry of Ancient Rome and Parthia. ". Parthians are not even in the game.

"The difference between troops with the same equipment1, but different types of formation3 is not shown. Example: Battle of Newport, where old-style Spanish troops and more modern Dutch troops clashed. " It's not Total War, but some units like Hoplites have formation bonus.


I mean, the whole beginning of your statement is not that right. The current process of evolution of weapons and military affairs in humankind is quite decent for a 4X, even one of the best since a long time.

And we don't especially need your system, like you pretend, to add horse crossbowmen or dragoons in the game.

1) Dragoons could be a generic unit

2) "German and Scandinavian medieval armies made extensive use of mounted crossbowmen. They would act not only as scouts and skirmishers, but also protect the flanks of the knights and infantry, chasing away enemy light cavalry. When the battle was fully engaged, they would charge at the enemy flank, shoot a single devastating volley at point-blank range and then attack the enemy with swords, without reloading. " Don't seems so common, could be an emblematic unit.


I mean, a lot of poeple were able to test the openDev, I think than they saw than HK is rather different from Endless Legends, and seems hard to figure how this system could work in HK.

I remember poeple which took a look to the current units tree itself, and tried to improve it : seems to be a more reasonable way to help the game, than wanting to change the whole system.


And to be honest, this idea of equipments like in EL is regularly posted, it would be better to group this in a single thread, instead of splitting the whole thing. To give more strengh to this statement. I mean, I'm maybe wrong about all of this, but in any case, it could be a good and fun mod.




Updated 4 years ago.
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