Yep. I pre-purchased in December expecting the April release date, and was a bit miffed by the decision to push back the release to August. Then I read about the Victor OpenDev, so I figured I'd give it a shot and created this G2G account today, and what do you know, one of the first things I run into trying to activate the OpenDev is this thread...

PotatoesAreFrenchFries wrote:

I'm starting to have second thoughts on this game, I dunno, just, with the delays, and the weird, and honestly slightly sketchy marketing, I'm a little worried. 

I much prefer a game company that delay the release, to work on perfecting the game more. To me that signals that they care and are passionate about their product and want it to be good. Willing to suffer more costs which a delay brings with it, just to make it an even better game. Rather than publishers pushing a game to be released too quickly and potentially be badly balanced, full of bugs and feel half finished. Pushing it out just to try and earn those sweet revenues to please some bean counters and not caring about the customers or the quality of the product. 

I really do not want any more Fallout 76 or Cyberpunk 2077 style releases. I'm sick and tired of that attitude from the gaming industry and so are many gamers in general. I personally would even support further delays if necessary. Better with some delay(s) and a good game when finally released.

I do however agree that the info on steam should have been updated the minute that Victor Open Dev was over.

Lord_Funk wrote:

PotatoesAreFrenchFries wrote:

I'm starting to have second thoughts on this game, I dunno, just, with the delays, and the weird, and honestly slightly sketchy marketing, I'm a little worried. 

I much prefer a game company that delay the release, to work on perfecting the game more. To me that signals that they care and are passionate about their product and want it to be good. Willing to suffer more costs which a delay brings with it, just to make it an even better game. Rather than publishers pushing a game to be released too quickly and potentially be badly balanced, full of bugs and feel half finished. Pushing it out just to try and earn those sweet revenues to please some bean counters and not caring about the customers or the quality of the product. 

I really do not want any more Fallout 76 or Cyberpunk 2077 style releases. I'm sick and tired of that attitude from the gaming industry and so are many gamers in general. I personally would even support further delays if necessary. Better with some delay(s) and a good game when finally released.

I do however agree that the info on steam should have been updated the minute that Victor Open Dev was over.

You're talking like the options are what we've seen here or Cyberpunk 2077, with no middle ground. Honestly, I'd prefer something more in the middle — an open beta. I mean, as a consumer, if I'm being presented the option to pre-order, then the developer should be far enough along that the release date is set in stone. If they need more time, they should be honest about it, but at least deliver something on the date presented at the time we paid for the product. Most gamers understand that an open beta is not a complete game and will be subject to rebalancing. Humankind is supposed to be a competitor to Civ — Civ VI was released 4.5 years ago and was subject to some rebalancing as recently as 18 days ago.

Octavion wrote:

Lord_Funk wrote:

PotatoesAreFrenchFries wrote:

I'm starting to have second thoughts on this game, I dunno, just, with the delays, and the weird, and honestly slightly sketchy marketing, I'm a little worried. 

I much prefer a game company that delay the release, to work on perfecting the game more. To me that signals that they care and are passionate about their product and want it to be good. Willing to suffer more costs which a delay brings with it, just to make it an even better game. Rather than publishers pushing a game to be released too quickly and potentially be badly balanced, full of bugs and feel half finished. Pushing it out just to try and earn those sweet revenues to please some bean counters and not caring about the customers or the quality of the product. 

I really do not want any more Fallout 76 or Cyberpunk 2077 style releases. I'm sick and tired of that attitude from the gaming industry and so are many gamers in general. I personally would even support further delays if necessary. Better with some delay(s) and a good game when finally released.

I do however agree that the info on steam should have been updated the minute that Victor Open Dev was over.

You're talking like the options are what we've seen here or Cyberpunk 2077, with no middle ground. Honestly, I'd prefer something more in the middle — an open beta. I mean, as a consumer, if I'm being presented the option to pre-order, then the developer should be far enough along that the release date is set in stone. If they need more time, they should be honest about it, but at least deliver something on the date presented at the time we paid for the product. Most gamers understand that an open beta is not a complete game and will be subject to rebalancing. Humankind is supposed to be a competitor to Civ — Civ VI was released 4.5 years ago and was subject to some rebalancing as recently as 18 days ago.

Same, but on second thought, I don't wanna put to much pressure on the devs. I do also think it might be a lot better to, well, to be slightly more transparent on a wide variety of things. I don't want to put to much slack on the devs, I mean, they're slaving away trying to fix stuff for all of us, but I do think that telling the audience the details even if they don't really help the marketing as a whole would help a little. I mean, isn't being more transparent in marketing better then promising more than there is? I hope there aren't more delays if its going to create more questions when it comes to honesty in marketing, and I do hope that this game becomes successful for all the work that's been put into it.

Octavion wrote:
You're talking like the options are what we've seen here or Cyberpunk 2077, with no middle ground. Honestly, I'd prefer something more in the middle — an open beta. I mean, as a consumer, if I'm being presented the option to pre-order, then the developer should be far enough along that the release date is set in stone. If they need more time, they should be honest about it, but at least deliver something on the date presented at the time we paid for the product. Most gamers understand that an open beta is not a complete game and will be subject to rebalancing. Humankind is supposed to be a competitor to Civ — Civ VI was released 4.5 years ago and was subject to some rebalancing as recently as 18 days ago.

PotatoesAreFrenchFries wrote:
Same, but on second thought, I don't wanna put to much pressure on the devs. I do also think it might be a lot better to, well, to be slightly more transparent on a wide variety of things. I don't want to put to much slack on the devs, I mean, they're slaving away trying to fix stuff for all of us, but I do think that telling the audience the details even if they don't really help the marketing as a whole would help a little. I mean, isn't being more transparent in marketing better then promising more than there is? I hope there aren't more delays if its going to create more questions when it comes to honesty in marketing, and I do hope that this game becomes successful for all the work that's been put into it.

Don't get me wrong. I fully respect others opinions. Maybe not agreeing all the time, but anyones opinion, as long as maturely presented is worth just as much as my opinion or anyone elses on this subject. You have expressed Your opinions well.

I often however take the role of "devils advocate" if You will. Trying to see it from another view. Even when I agree with someones opinion I might still present another view. If nothing else than to put that idea to the test, if it holds up or not.

As for Amplitude being honest, in my opinion they have. They did come out with an announcement that the game was being delayed. Even I, who at that time was pretty much off-the-grid as work was being done in our apartment building and had to rely on only my phone and very limited data traffic, managed to catch that announcement on YouTube.

No idea what date that was announced here on the official web-site/forum ???

Also they did release something approximately on the date it was supposed to be released. An OpenDev (call it open beta if you will) that lasted for almost 2 weeks (12 days to be exact), so that anyone who had pre-ordered could test it. Even others could earn access via Twitch drops. Sorry if You missed that. 

I imagine that the OpenDev does not even represent the latest build. It probably only represent the latest build that they (at that time) felt comfortable to release on such short notice (remember the delay wasn't planned, a delay rarely is). 

Over the decades I have seen games release in so called "early access" that has led the versions of those games using so much power that they has been accused of ruining peoples GPU's, crash their PC's and corrupt windows files and all kinds of things (true or not I have no idea, at least no pc of mine has cashed and been corupted as a result of any such game yet). However trust me that is something You want to avoid as a company. Accusations, very bad press and potential law suits that follows. You really do not want that as a customer either, since it's Your PC at risk.

Also there is a unique situation with Covid 19 of course. The added delays of staff having to work from home, the time it takes if one develop something before the rest of the team can integrate what they have done and test it all in the same build etc. Compared to when all are in an office and in seconds can bounce ideas back and forth and test them out. Sure discord, skype and all kinds of apps makes that easier today than it would have been years ago, but it still is far from the same as all being in the same physical workspace. Not to mention that not all staff might have the latest and greates PC at home. It can not be a demand from and employer that their staff must invest X amount of their hard earned money into the latest and greatest hardware in their homes etc. 

In their defense, I'm sure CD Project Red suffered those same disadvantages as well (at least at the end of their development). That is an example of a game that should have been delayed. Yes it was delayed too, but obviously it should have been delayed more...alot more...but people were screaming for them to release it. I'm sure investors did as well. Look what that lead to. As for Fallout 76, I don't think there are many excuses, since that was before Covid 19 and alot of people had warned Bethesda about their aging game engine and it's parts, which was not built for multiplayer online in the style of an MMO RPG. Still they didn't listen, but hey that's Bethesda and this is not a forum about their games. Just meant to put things into perspective. No of course it does not have to be all or nothing. Those are of course extreme examples of one side of the spectrum. Unfortunetly a side that becomes more and more common with games it seems.

Also You are comparing to Civ VI, the 6th in a series, from a studio that has done the same game (in different versions) since the late 80's/early 90's, compared with a small studio, Amplitude, which has done a few games and this is their first of this scope of popularity, potential and expectations. The first in a potential series, which if it fails might kill it from ever becoming a series, if it's bad at release. When and if Civ fails, they still have alot of goodwill from people having like the earlier games in the series. Still even they with Civ 6 has lost some of it's former playerbase who did not like it at all.

Also for Amplitude to get their publisher Sega to agree to a delay of months and all the wages and costs that brings with it, rather than pushing it out (to bring in sweet revenues), is pretty amazing. Respect to both Amplitude and Sega for that. I hardly think anyone from Amplitude or Sega wanted this game to be delayed. Non of them wanted Covid 19 to screw things up either. Just like none of the rest of us wanted that in our lives. If You as a gamer feels frustrated over a delay and want the game to play it now (which is a good sign tbh and I feel the same about wanting it yesterday preferably) then just imagine how frustrating it must be for people in the studio who have worked on it for years.

To maybe make You understand my perspective as a gamer since the 70's. Starting in arcades (oh the days of, atari sprint, tank, asteroids and space invaders), as well as having both Pong and later Philips Videopac G7000 console. Called Magnavox in America I think. It even had a game very similar to tank, yay. I played the first Civ back on Amiga Commodore 600 loaded from 3 1/2 inch floppy disks. Sat and played online back in the days of copper phone lines. Eventually had 2x64 kbit/s lines = ISDN and could get 128 kbit/s speed at the cost of a small fortune in phone bills each month, as it cost like two phone calls being done at the same time (while most friends had 56 kbit/s) and I have seen how the gaming industry and games have evolved. To be honest over the last 10-15 years, mostly for the worse in my opinion. Almost devolve it feels like.

To me, as a consumer, in my perspective (having been a gamer for a while) a few months, or even one more delay after this, is nothing. It upsets me alot more when companies release a product I paid for that is sub par, full of bugs and just bland and boring. I understand that others might see it differently.

How many games I have bought for my son, or myself, over the last 10-15 years that we have played only a short while to then uninstall and put on the shelves to never play again. At least the T-51b Power Armor Helmet looks cool on the shelf it sits on, he he he !!! :P 

Compared to in the old days when almost every game I bought felt pretty good. Even unique in many ways and I usually played them for years on and off. Some of those I still play. Sometimes via DOSBox on my PC. As a side note, I even still have my old Amiga Commodore 600, as well as my Philip Videopac G7000 and they both run fine when hook them up to TV. Just as my sons PS2 does. For example my son and I still both like Fallout 1 the best, even if he wasn't even born when it was released, in fact it was many years before he was born. Back then it was Interplay who both developed it and published Fallout.

Some games released over the last 10-15 years wasn't even that buggy, just hardly even worth remembering, very boring and bland. Not well tested and things didn't work well together and such. Adding up to products that took years to develop, to simply be forgotten in weeks or months.

Yes, again I agree that Victor OpenDev banners etc, should have been removed from steam as soon as it was over. I have no insight on how direct and responsive that systems works between a publisher/or game studio and Steam ??? Mistakes happens. Let's not make a hen out of a feather. I don't know, maybe I'm being too calm about it, but to me it's not the end of the world. To You it is a big deal and that is ok. Sorry You feel so bad about it. Hopefully You can get cheered up in some way.

Other than that it says the game is pre-order (and yes the date was pushed back). As far as I know, it's not that hard to get a refund from steam, so if feel cheated that the game was delayed (openly and publically announced) that is always an option I suppose. I personally have pre-ordered 2 copies of the physical steel box limited edition from 2 different online stores, one for my son, one for my me, to  at least be sure to get one to display on the shelves at home. I have ordering it as a digital product as a back-up if something goes wrong and none of them or even one of them does not get delivered, for whatever reason.

I am much more concerned that this game becomes really good, have a high replay value and my son and I can enjoy it for years. Much more than I care about the exact date it is released. To be honest so many other games are not even worth playing in my opinion. Even my son has become very cynical and feeling jaded about games these days, almost expecting them to be "meh" when finally released, that we really need a good game, finally after years and years of dissepointments with games riddled with lootboxes and micro-transactions. Feeling like every game is turning into mobile games in their business model, or games that just feels bland and "meh".

Still I try to keep my expectations cautiously optimistic even for Humankind (even if that is alot more than I do for most games nowdays). Building up too much hype and expectations almost always leads to dissepointments anyway. Seriously, nothing can live up the hype some people seem build up in their minds.

As I said I play the devils advocate alot, not only with others, but also in my own head, to try and see things from another view, walk in someone elses shoes, to put things in perspective. To try and avoid getting tunnel vision on certain topics that could otherwise consume me with negative emotions. A couple of months or even 1/2 year is nothing in the life of a person. Patience is a virtue as they say.

I have no idea of anyones age here of course, so don't take that part too litteraly (no disrespect intended). For all I know I could be the youngling here.

I know these are crappy times for alot of people and many of us are seeking something to brighten our days when we sit alot at home. I get that. We feel the same here, my son and I. Hopefully one day we will look back at this time and realize that other things was definetly more important than the exact date a game was released, 3 or even 6 months here and there etc.

Some of Your opinions I definetly get and even agree with. Transparency being one. That is most often a good thing. When people don't get answers they start making answers up themselves. Sometimes even conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories can be very entertaining. Also very tempting to believe in many times, but hey, that's a topic for another place, not related to this thread. :)

You are of course entitled to Your own opinions. I fully respect that. I don't think any less of people disagreeing, as long as they keep it civil and not resort to imaturity and name calling and such. None of You have done that, kudos. I'm just trying to present to You another view. Not necessarily the correct one, as there is no right ro wrong in this, just opinions. 

Now please stay safe out there wherever that may be !!!

I do get the frustration. But I have a hard time spinning this as Amplitude spreading misinformation or failing to update any info.

If I drop € 50 after reading no more than a headline and assuming things based on that, am I not at fault there? Is a tiny bit of self-responsibility too much to ask? The full and correct info is exactly one click away. I quote from the header of the latest news post on Steam:

BETA RELEASE POSTED Thu, April 22 ENDED Mon, May 3

Humankind Victor OpenDev Available Now

Play 150 turns of Humankind in the Victor OpenDev from April 22nd to May 3rd

Two times the date is listed right on top, and if you read through the article, the OpenDev period is again mentioned in bold text at the beginning of a paragraph. The embedded announcement video speaks of “time limited access” while plastering it in big, bold letters all over the screen, and lists the exact dates at the end.

Now, if I’m new to Humankind, I would have no idea what a Victor OpenDev is and would be reading the news post. And if I have heard about OpenDev before, I probably know that it has always been a limited time period. If I am not certain, all the info is right there, and I don’t need to rely on reading just a headline. If I still pre-ordered the game just for the Victor OpenDev and don’t intend to have it pre-ordered in the end, Steam lets me have a refund for a full two weeks.

I really don’t see any way where I could convincingly argue that it is not my own fault, and if I’m angry, I should be angry with myself (which is a valid approach in that case).