I have been against DRM since the Spore Debacle.

I bought the game and on day one it had freezing and crashing issues because of the DRM.

Even with customer support, we couldn't get the game working properly and in hours I had run through the games allotted installs.

I was told I would have to buy another copy to try and get the game working.

I loaded up Pirate Bay that evening and downloaded a drm free pirated version and enjoyed the game I bought.

If Amplitude pulls the same stunt with Humakind I will shelve the copy of the game I already bought, that I will never load and then get a pirated drm free version.

DRM has consistently helped no one.  It consistently runs off customers and causes problems for everyone.

I have purchased nearly every game Amplitude has made.  And have already pre-purchased Humankind.

Why is everyone saying that Sega doesn't use Denuvo in Total War games?

Total War Warhammer I

Total War Thrones of Britannia

Total War: Three Kingdoms

Even in non total war games like Yakuza Like a Dragon.

Don't know where people got the idea that its not in Total War games,

To my mind Sega is not reallly about the games and the entertainment we like. Sega as a company also does not care about us as a community, because Sega as a company has many more problems than Humankind or Amplidute. I bought the book from Brian Upton on the aesthetics of play. It's quite good and it took a long time to arrive... even I live in London and have a prime account. Yet I just don't see how this game is a narrative... Sorry. And I am not so worried about things like denuvo, but more about Amplitude oversold us this product, this concept. I resonate very well with the question asked - "was this ever the game we really wanted to make?" It's an alright game, I can enjoy it, but I also feel it is not there and not ready. You can say many things about covid, which we all suffered from. But then again I don't believe that the delays of the game and the explanations around it made that much sense to me. I played civ 1 a long time ago, with so much fun circumenting Africa, I think I know what a good 4X game is. Regardless of covid. This game has been developed in a way, it really is not ready for a die hard community and it is a bit of a let down for the studio. We know so many aspects from the open dev have been underdeveloped, surprinsingly so for a studio like Amplitude, that really cared about these things. And this is not to blame the open dev idea. We all enjoyed this and gave some input. Yet what is the point? I think the promise of the game is there, but the delivery is not. And this denuvo discussion is just another iteration of the fundamental shortcoming. 

Friendly reminder that I'll lock this thread if it devolves into argument. Discussing this topic is completely fine, but keep it civil. Thanks to you all for keeping it civil so far, I will be closing any new threads related to this issue and pushing them towards a central thread.

reich238 wrote:

To my mind Sega is not reallly about the games and the entertainment we like. Sega as a company also does not care about us as a community, because Sega as a company has many more problems than Humankind or Amplidute. I bought the book from Brian Upton on the aesthetics of play. It's quite good and it took a long time to arrive... even I live in London and have a prime account. Yet I just don't see how this game is a narrative... Sorry. And I am not so worried about things like denuvo, but more about Amplitude oversold us this product, this concept. I resonate very well with the question asked - "was this ever the game we really wanted to make?" It's an alright game, I can enjoy it, but I also feel it is not there and not ready. You can say many things about covid, which we all suffered from. But then again I don't believe that the delays of the game and the explanations around it made that much sense to me. I played civ 1 a long time ago, with so much fun circumenting Africa, I think I know what a good 4X game is. Regardless of covid. This game has been developed in a way, it really is not ready for a die hard community and it is a bit of a let down for the studio. We know so many aspects from the open dev have been underdeveloped, surprinsingly so for a studio like Amplitude, that really cared about these things. And this is not to blame the open dev idea. We all enjoyed this and gave some input. Yet what is the point? I think the promise of the game is there, but the delivery is not. And this denuvo discussion is just another iteration of the fundamental shortcoming. 

Oh god, I feel like somethings are getting dragged too far. I honestly don't know what people expected with this game. Did you expect the new last frontier and the most exceptional game of the last three decades, that will revolutionize not only the 4x games but every other genre too?

Guys the game offers many new fresh mechanics and interactions, a lot of replayability, great graphics for the genre, and a passionate developer and community which usually ensures that the game will improve on itself.

At the end of the day the game is a 4X you can not totally change the basics on which the genre bases itself, otherwise it would be another new genre. No need to reinvent the wheel. With the right dedication and direction the game will get there on top, but of course people needs to be reasonable too, as of late I think everything is possible but find reasonable people. This thought of mine has been fueled by the dozens if not more posts criticizing the game without thinking about the journey the game is about to overtake and that they can not have a game full of content super polished and mechanically flawless, right of the bat, especially in this genre, because if that is the expectation for the game than, we might as well wait another two or three years....

DragonGaming wrote:

The thing is that when denuvo in humankind was discovered about a month and half ago, comments and threads about it having risen to a all time high, 5 of the top trending posts in the past 30 days are denuvo related, this one included. Yet despite this, Amplitude has remained silent about denuvo. This would be a normal reaction from other companies. But Amplitude is a company that prides itself on listening and working with the community to shape its games, so for it to be silent when the whole community is asking for answers, is quite worrying.

DragonGaming wrote:

Around a month and a half ago, the community learned about denuvo being in the game, and since then its become the largest trending topic on this site, with 1 post about it having just gained over 1000 views in under a month, and another has passed 900, both posts do not speak positively about denuvo in humankind... people are refunding their pre orders. The community wants answers, how long will denuvo be on humankind, will it have any restrictions, what caused you to place it in the game?

Khaar wrote:

I'm just coming from Steam where I was about to preorder Humankind, but then I noticed Denuvo and decided not to.

I avoid games with Denuvo, for reasons other people have already mentioned:
Performance issues, security issues, no offline play, messes up the system...

So it would be wonderful if you could respond in some way or another.

It's clear people want a statement from Amplitude!

Kutuzov wrote:

Yes, my thinking is that a small but very vocal number of people have allowed their own expectations of this game to grow far beyond anything that is achievable. They read statements from the developers like "this is the game we always wanted to make" and this fuels their fantasy of Humankind being some sort of a paragon of 4X gaming rather than it simply and obviously being "the civ-like 4X game they wanted to make" and not a fantasy 4X  like Endless Legend 2 or another space 4X game like ES3. And it's certainly not helped by their fellow forumites who amplify this fiction or especially by those streamers who are touting it on Youtube as some sort of Civ killer. Unless anyone can point me to any statement, official or unofficial, made by Amplitude where they said that they hoped Humankind would kill the opposition, it's just fanciful thinking on the fanbase's part.

Sadly, this is going to upset some folks who seem to be expecting 'something wonderful' to happen next month. When the reality kicks in and they feel 'duped', they are not going to blame themselves or the folks who have similarly allowed themselves to get sucked into this fantasy. They are going to blame the developers and they will try to find any statement they can to demonstrate how they are the victims here. They'll complain that they've been lied to or 'deliberately' misled by marketing instead of just confessing that they themselves are to blame.

I couldn't agree more with you, don't get me wrong I too was and I am very excited about the game and the variety it will offer compared to the opposition, but I try to remain realistic and conscious of the fact that, there will be improvements down the road and the game will have to face many phases before it can become a constant in the genre, but this possible if the people who are going to play it and participate in it's journey are going to have yes an optimistic vision of the game but also a realistic one.

In the past many games claimed to be things that at the end were not, but is also true that many good games got sacked off from people with inconceivable reasoning, or that didn't try to think of the game from a developing point of view but instead only hoping that their dream game will accomplish every little characteristic they imagined.

I also noticed that many of the post that lately have been criticizing Humankind, always suggested the implementation of mechanics very similar to the ones of the CIV saga, for then complaining how similar the game is to it's opposition....

If it hurts the performance I would say this really makes it very problematic. I realised that the closed beta played different on my computer compared to the previous open dev. I did not have too many glitches, but certainly my computer was doing a lot of heavy lifting for this game from a noise and heat perspective. I also play Three Kingdoms and have constant issues with crashes - to the extent that I tried several things to prevent this from happening, yet still no success. It is a bit of a worry for me now that maybe the reason is Denuvo. 

@Kutuzov: That's two topics out of two that I've read this morning where you're trying to belittle others who don't share your opinion with expressions like "small but vocal minority". That's really quite rude, I think. Please stop?

In any case, my original anti-Denuvo thread (posted before these recent few) asked for clarifications to the EULA that basically gives Denuvo the right to do anything on my PC for any reason with no explanation, no notification, and no responsibility if something breaks. That's not an "unconditional demand for its removal". Because if the only thing that Denuvo did was phone home to verify my purchase for the first month after release, then I actually wouldn't care about it at all. But that's not what it does and that's not what we're agreeing to allow it do do if we agree to the EULA. And it's not like the company behind Denuvo has a great track record of always being honest and doing the right thing. Their latest product is a kernel hack that creates security flaws, just like their old products (e.g. SecuROM, which was developed by a pre-cursor to the current company).

As far as the game being hyped too much, well, Amplitude did their fair share of that. I guess that's their job, though. I think players would be quite happy with a good, fun historically-themed 4X game. I don't think that's what we're going to get unless the internal builds were substantially better than the last beta build.

Sublustris wrote:

I bet most of you played HK OpenDevs/Beta and didn't even notice it had Denuvo.

I'm certain none of them had Denuvo, people were playing them after the official end by disconnecting the internet (also I've played it during the official time when my Internet was off, too) , something that almost certainly wouldn't work if there was online DRM.

DragonGaming wrote:

GlorySign wrote:

Kwami wrote:

As far as the game being hyped too much, well, Amplitude did their fair share of that. I guess that's their job, though. I think players would be quite happy with a good, fun historically-themed 4X game. I don't think that's what we're going to get unless the internal builds were substantially better than the last beta build.

True, they overhyped the game and said they`ll build the best 4x they ever did with their 10 years of experience and in reality it`s pretty basic and barebones. For example they deleted all stats that a unit had in their previous games and replaced them with just one: „Combat Strength”. That doesn`t sound the best they did till now and it`s just an example. Let`s hope for the best as the game is not yet released

 

Also +1 for Kwami`s post, i totally agree with what was said there, good stuff

Amplitude did more than overhyped the game, they are treating it as if its going to be their flagship game, their dream game, meaning they probably diverted most of their resources to this game, and since its was delayed i think once or twice already, its means they most likely have gone over budget for this game. This could be the game that makes or breaks Amplitude, and unfortunately, recent events haved moved that expectation towards the breaking side. I fear that if this game fails, than amplitude may be forced to give away the endless franchise, most likely to another company that is not as connected to the franchise as amplitude is.

I don't know why you think they overhyped the game, or are convinced that this game is going to sink Amplitude. There really is very little base for your worries, other than "It's been delayed"