Game Speed, BLITZ to ENDLESS comparison.

SimKlay

Inspired Wannabe

4 years ago

Aug 24, 2021, 12:51:09 PM

Hope this helps some people if they're confused!

I've seen a few posts online with people frustrated when it comes to game speed and how 600 turns isn't enough time.

Game speed only affects the time it takes to do things. It doesn't give you 'more time to do things' technically, because all required research is also scaled up.

It takes MORE SCIENCE to research individual techs, MORE PRODUCTION to build things, even MORE FOOD to grow your tribe etc.

For example, when running in BLITZ, to reach the Ancient Era you onlyneed either 2 population or 2 science or 1 war victory.

To build a:

New Tribe – 5 Food

Emblematic District – 25 Production (as Assyrians)

Farmers Quarters – 18 Production

Makers Quarter – 18 Production

Pottery Workshop – 13 Production.

First Tech – Only 9 Science required.

(It says 0 turns becuase I'd collected enough science from pick ups before entering the Ancient Era)

For ENDLESS speed, to reach Ancient Era you need either 10 population or 20 science or 10 victories!! Research for Techs are scaled up majorly.

To build a:

New Tribe – 40 Food
Emblematic District – 200 Production
Farmers Quarters – 140 Production.
Makers Quarter – 140 Production.
Pottery Workshop – 100 Production.

First Tech – A whopping 70 Science required!

(It says 9 turns becuase of the science I'd collected from pick ups before entering the Ancient Era)

Essentially, when comparing ENDLESS speed to BLITZ, ENDLESS speed will see everything take 7.77 times longer to complete! Bugger that!

The increase in turns does not give you ‘more time’ to defeat your enemies, it just prolongs the experience, unnescessarily imo. I think a lot of players were expecting ENDLESS speed to just increase the turns for the end game trigger and assumed Technologies would take a NORMAL amount of time to research - but this isn't the case.

As a benchmark, NORMAL speed should be the sweet spot, but given unit movement is not altered to compensate for game speed, SLOW seems ideal.

I’ve found personally a 450-turn game took about 15 hours which was fine - felt great (if there were more than 2 oil on the LARGE MAP, it would have been a better experience).
I would've launched the Mars Mission around turn 320 (didn't have enough oil, of which I controlled it all), but the game ended when I'd researched all Techs which occured at turn 348.

Happy hunting!

Updated 4 years ago.

Rexeit

Supremacy

Even in death, I still serve

Rexeit

Supremacy

20 600g2g pts

4 years ago

Aug 24, 2021, 1:04:20 PM

"I think a lot of players were expecting ENDLESS speed to just increase the turns for the end game trigger and assumed Technologies would take a NORMAL amount of time to research - but this isn't the case. "

That's the exact same thing for literally every game that have the option tho ?

Why being shocked or surprised by that ?

It's the goal of the thing, make everything longer or quicker

I don't see the point of this post..

SimKlay

Inspired Wannabe

I will push HUMANKIND... in lockdown.

SimKlay

Inspired Wannabe

4 years ago

Aug 24, 2021, 1:12:25 PM

Exactly my point. The confusion would sprout from the fact that the game ends when you hit 300 turns. If people are struggling to finish the tech tree at 300 turns, how is changing to 600 turns going to fix the issue if every tech is scaled up? This is where the confusions lies for some players I think, especially beginners. They may be struggling to meet the other victory conditions in the time allocated and need more time.

khadgar

Fanatic

"To live alone is the fate of all great souls." Arthur Schopenhauer

khadgar

Fanatic

18 700g2g pts

4 years ago

Aug 24, 2021, 1:23:02 PM

From a statistical standpoint Endless 600 turns levels out Random events, flattens the curve or mitigate the impact.
Example: getting an extra nomad early on is less of a thing in endless, because you have 8 more to go.

In contrast to that snowballing becomes incredibly powerful and apparent.
My megacity's production in all areas was huge and after many tries and uncomfortable starts, I finished and won my first game on Endless yesterday with a magnificent lead, no tech to research left and 300 turns still to play.

I don't like random events screwing my plans and I love snowballing effects so I prefer ENDLESS mode to the normal one, but your mileage may vary...

More customisable options would have been nice.
Oh and in Endless I find money pretty much useless in the beginning because everything is several times more expensive.

RoaRawR

Newcomer

RoaRawR

Newcomer

28 300g2g pts

4 years ago

Aug 24, 2021, 2:56:56 PM

I just wish they are going to add more options to your game settings, either that ore some great modder is going to :)

But I never understood this "300 turns are too little" on normal, What on earth are people doing that makes them need more then 300 turns on normal? They do understand they can just keep playing if they want? In most cases the victor have already won by a landslide.

In all my playthroughs I more or less won anyway by turn 150-200 and in the last era. past 250 I feel like I just plop up as many quarters I can or kill the enemy and push end turn.

I feel like the whole "max 300 turns" that a lot of people got turned off because they compared it to CiV and 300 turns and not understanding the phase of the game is a vast difference.

TheZuma

Deep Guardian

TheZuma

Deep Guardian

9 800g2g pts

4 years ago

Aug 24, 2021, 6:00:19 PM

I personally hope they add a slider for what is modified with pace - I'd e.g love for only science and fame stars to be scaled, so I can enjoy each era more, while still building quarters at the same pace, to allow for larger and more authentic cities.

Right now on normal pace, I speedrun through the eras, winning around turn 220 by researching all techs (on Humankind difficulty).

SimKlay

Inspired Wannabe

I will push HUMANKIND... in lockdown.

SimKlay

Inspired Wannabe

4 years ago

Aug 24, 2021, 11:27:42 PM

Yeah, that's it. I'm a Civ player and coming to Humankind from that has been a breath of fresh air. I'm loving this game, but was concerned initially about the hard-stop turn cap, as I'd never played with one. First game I got smashed on Nation difficulty - winner has about 6k more fame than me (snowballed as he took out two other NPCs).

It looks like the most viable strat is to just go hard Science (Zhou into Greek seems an amazing combo for early into mid game). Either that or full military. If gold is pointless on Endless because everything is too expensive, that needs to be addressed too. I'm yet to have a crack at a gold focused build, I want to beat the game on Humankind difficulty first!

Updated 4 years ago.

Drullo321

Newcomer

Drullo321

Newcomer

13 600g2g pts

4 years ago

Aug 24, 2021, 11:43:55 PM

Normally the game speed makes war more viable as units affecting things like healing and movement isn't scaled (didn't test in Humankind, i just assume here it is the same). In Civ IV i usually played on epic game speed (like 1.5 x time) as it allowed me to use units more effectively.

Alot of complaints come from either totally inexperienced player who should test things first before complaining (e.g. "turn limit") or more advanced players didn't fully understand the mechanics. I'm at fault too some days ago not understanding the embarking of units in this game, also experienced this in Civ V.

Dayvit78

History Pro

"How do you know the fish are happy? You are not a fish." "How do you know I do not know? You are not me."

Dayvit78

History Pro

12 500g2g pts

4 years ago

Aug 25, 2021, 12:36:53 AM

Not everything scales.

Movement speeds and battle damage/speeds are unchanged.
This means with more time, you can explore more. You can fight more (because you have more time to march to the enemy's cities). And you can siege more. These are fun aspects of the game, so Endless will allow you to do more of it.

SimKlay

Inspired Wannabe

I will push HUMANKIND... in lockdown.

SimKlay

Inspired Wannabe