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Farmer's vs Maker's, early game/ancient era

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3 years ago
Nov 29, 2021, 9:50:58 PM

What do you think about the balance of farmer's vs maker's in the very early game, during the ancient era. Do you prefer one over the other and in such case why; do your culture choice influence which one you build more of; do terrain have an impact on your choice?

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3 years ago
Nov 30, 2021, 3:17:07 AM

I'm not a min-maxer, but what I tend to do is EQ -> Makers -> Farmer. I only build farmers if I'm running out of food. My culture influences where I will build, for sure. I may have to build a farmer or maker to get my EQ in a better location.


Maybe I should prioritize population more, so I'd love to hear others' thoughts.


I also like to make I plan so that tiles with more than one FIMS can be fully exploited (say if it has science+food). I'm not sure how valuable this is since the base values are quite small. So I guess this is more for RP purposes.


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3 years ago
Nov 30, 2021, 8:04:55 AM

Afaik from any 4x ever industry asap so you can play the long game. Faster focus on production makes everything faster sooner so ends up usually being best focus no matter what. Call it boring if you want but I've never seen industry focused playstyle ever be weak. It helps you respond to anything where only money has a potential to do that as well albeit very cruddy in Humankind. If all you do is focus on industry you can change up any strategy once it's in full swing and it's the number 1 most important value for military aggressive playstyles. Science focused few units usually don't  beat unit spam. 2 or three next era units (let's say swordsmen) vs 8 to 10 unit spam (warriors) won't win with all the flanking unless you can hold a very solid high ground one unit at a time advantage. Focusing on what will almost always help you vs what might help you is the key to any planning imo.


Science early game is extremely useful since it's night and day early on when you put population into science but by mid game it's diminished in my experience as many more ways start adding in to science. Science weakness is the reliance on population early on. Due to this it relies on "turtling" and unable to produce military early on. It consumes too much effort to hard focus thus an industry focused warmonger could and should beat you if you are attacked early. He will thank you for building your city for him.


I'd argue in Civ and some other 4x that money can be just as powerful as industry but in Humankind money is fairly devalued, maybe intentionally? I think they certainly should still tweak money or atleast sacrificing population to be something that's remotely worth doing rather than never. I find markets to be near useless with the way money is valued currently. Markets are only good at being plundered imo. If you take a city with markets you should replace the sad things unless they were emblematic districts.


Lastly we got food focus or population which is another thing that can be good in some 4x but in Humankind it feels like just a minimum threshold you want to hit so you keep growing. It can be more valuable for early wars though due to drain on population and this in tandem makes early game river capitals very good for aggression. Late game it's extremely moot. There is a reason the AI always hauled butt in score as Harappans and still do to a lesser extent post nerfs. If you only focus on food early on you run into the same flaws of science as they both rely on eachother. Food focus unlike science gives you a more well rounded approach due to worker specialization but I think this is only useful if all 4 focuses were strong and since money is abysmal food focus slips on its strength so it won't make up for burst production potential, currently anyway.


I covered all the resources minus influence rather than food and industry, seemed more big picture that way. Industry is always good, science can be if you are allowed to refrain from early warmongering. Food is always tertiary, money is... quite frankly a joke.



Updated 3 years ago.
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3 years ago
Dec 1, 2021, 12:49:41 PM

I find food too be very useful in the early game as more population mean more progress towards most era stars and in the early game; specialist yields is far closer to the yield of districts, as the game progress they however become weaker relative to districts.

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