If you look in "fame", then "RpnFameDefinition", you will see this :

- A file "Fame_EraStar...Thematic...Base.

- 3 files "Fame_EraStar...Thematic...Level 1 to 3. 

I don't understand how the game calculate what you need to get an Era star.

First, I don't understand what do the "Base" file. 

Is there a base cost, then all other cost will be added ?

So, for example, if I want to get the first star, I have do formula from "Base" + formula from "Level1" ?

First tests : It need to modify each file "Fame_EraStar...Thematic...Level 1 to 3" for increasing the cost of the stars.

Then come the files ""Fame_EraStar...Thematic...Base".

My first observation is, if the value from this is lower than the first star to get, it lower the cost.

It look like it's a kind of "if you end to build the 3 stars but you continue to get more, you get a reduction cost on your next era for this star".

And it's crazy complicate to set, because it depends on the others costs, with an accumulation.

Results of all this :

You can get the mod ExpensiveStars here :

https://humankind.mod.io/expensivestars

Thanks very much for this thread, you're doing god's work, son.

docktorkain wrote:

Thanks very much for this thread, you're doing god's work, son.

Hello, thanks. As you can see, I have a lot of trouble understanding some things in the game properties. Since I'm doing computational simulations on worksheets, it helps.

We can trace a little bit the history of the development of the game, from the concept to the development solution. There, at the beginning when the game designers decided to use the Fame and stars to win the game. This was to be more vague than the final result. 

In the properties of the game, this is intended to be modular, so here :

- There are modules per star level. If the game designers want the player to collect 5 stars per era, the code can easily adapt. Just add a tier. 

- Someone thought about this, and maybe it was even tested! However, this may have resulted in too many messages saying that the player has earned a star.

- As a precaution, the developers provided a formula for each star. 

- In the end they did not use this, because it worked with a single formula for all 3 stars in an era. This also makes the concept more understandable for the player. In an era, you have to do the same task for each star. Build 6 districts 3 times. It could have been building 4 districts, then 6 for the second star, then 8 for the third. And why not have a better reward for the last star.

- However, there is no property to manually change the cost when you change era. This must be done by the formula! This is risky, but on the other hand, having a formula allows you to have a result that fluctuates according to other parameters (game speed, map size, etc).

- In the cost of the iconic districts, on the other hand, there is a formula per era. Perhaps a flat cost was originally intended. In the end it is not used and they all have the same formula.

- As for the "BASE" cost, we can see that the formula is not easy to find, and is different for each. I don't know how the formula was found. But it was too complicated, while a very simple solution is at hand: just reuse the star formula, and add a multiplier/exponential. You see the formulas on my mod, it's exactly the same for all stars in all categories.

- I wondered why the game coder didn't use a solution like that. Maybe the explanation is very human and unavoidable: when you get into this kind of settings, you focus so much on the complexity of the task, that a simple idea doesn't come to help. And that's the kind of idea that is hard to come up with while thinking. I mean, in my case, I can think for hours about a problem and do something complicated to solve it. And finally, it's the next day and I wake up, and without any effort, that a solution comes to my mind by magic.

You have developed a very good mod on stars, here :

https://humankind.mod.io/fame-based-era-thresholds

I talked about "the simple idea that's hard to get when you're too focused." And this is exactly that.

This is also a solution that could have been chosen by the game, and which is logical because this calculated difficulty is used often. The cost of the districts by districts already built, the increase of the cost of technologies by number of technologies already searched.

By doing so, the difficulty adjusts itself.

I wondered if I could use your idea in the future. Not in the same way as I certainly need to keep some control over the star costs for my BuyThis mod! 

I figured I could probably do half and half. Which is equivalent to doing : (NbEra/2 + Fame/3000).

However, this is going to be difficult to test! And even to pre-calculate.

The last idea I'd like to use for stars comes from a random discussion on a forum. Make the FAME earned increase per era.

This is something that many players would like, and I would be the first. The game is such that a player who has a good score in era 1, 2 and 3 can win the game, no matter how hard the other players try.

So I thought of this: add a multiplier per era. At least test this with +10%. 

Era 1 (NbEra=0), the star score 50 +50x(0x0.1) = 50 fame.

Era 2 (NbEra=1), the star score 50 +50x(1x0.1) = 55 fame.

Era 3 (NbEra=2), the star score 50 +50x(2x0.1) = 60 fame.

And so on...

Thus, a player has a chance to go back to the score in the last eras.

I disagree. Making later era stars yield more fame will only increase the runaway leader effect. When you're the leader with lots of cities, you'll achieve the stars quicker than the ones behind you, thus earning them at bigger values (remember star fame values drop with time), while the players behind will have more difficulty to earn them and will gain less fame. Adding a % multiplier will only increase this effect.

What I want to test now - and I'm not 100% sure it can be done - is to give Catch-up Era stars a fame bonus. Right now, players that are left behing passively accrue bonus stars so they can advance their eras, but gain no fame from those stars, meaning they stay at the bottom. I'm thinking about awarding 200 fame per Catch-up Era star to the players behind, but I'm not 100% sure it can be done with current mod tools.

docktorkain wrote:

I disagree. Making later era stars yield more fame will only increase the runaway leader effect. When you're the leader with lots of cities, you'll achieve the stars quicker than the ones behind you, thus earning them at bigger values (remember star fame values drop with time), while the players behind will have more difficulty to earn them and will gain less fame. Adding a % multiplier will only increase this effect.

What I want to test now - and I'm not 100% sure it can be done - is to give Catch-up Era stars a fame bonus. Right now, players that are left behing passively accrue bonus stars so they can advance their eras, but gain no fame from those stars, meaning they stay at the bottom. I'm thinking about awarding 200 fame per Catch-up Era star to the players behind, but I'm not 100% sure it can be done with current mod tools.

No idea where to find that. It's nice to get more various way to get fame.

The idea of increase fame per era: well, it was a small increase. I didn't look at how to do that for now.

I wonder how to give some ending conditions that are less frustrating for a player able to conquest all the map and kill other civs, then get a report that say the game is lost because other civ got more stars. Fame is the only win condition, so if you know you have already lost the game, there is no real motivation to conquest the map at the end.

LakerBk wrote:

I know this is a old thread but question. I'm trying to create a mod that changing Era 0 stars from 1 to 3 and every other Era to 14. I've seen mods that changes Era 0 to 2 Stars but for me. Two is not enough. The AI moves on to the next Era too quick, and Me as a player tend to stick around Era 0 to build more units for the challenges to come (Always Play on Hardest Difficulty). Any idea where in the mod folder I change stars required per Era? 

Quickly, I can't say the exact file, I don't remember and I don't use it.

It's not in the folder about "Fame" but in the folder about technologies.

 It make it hard to find when you don't know that.

Just check files in this folder, you'll find it easely.

You should make a locked eras mod, perhaps with ultra hard stars in specific era, any thoughts?