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4 years ago
Apr 26, 2021, 3:27:27 PM

Playing the current opendev I get the feeling that the intended cost for infra is the time it takes to build them

Districts cost stability and units cost pop but if you have lost of money you can buy all the infra for each city no matter how many are available


There is a limitation that each one can only be built once (unlike districts) which can also be taken into account


I am not sure how this all is expected to coem together: in my last playthrough I have built practically 0 infra: districts were more then enough

If they had upkeep cost they would definitively not be worth it but as is I could just buy all of them from mid-game onward... not sure what the concept is and how to address its balance

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 11:50:39 AM
Mausklickmoerder wrote:

Don't underestimate by how much districts increase the industry cost for further improvements. As it stands, you really don't need to nerf districts any further. Though I'd prefer gold upkeep over increased production costs, I don't think such a drastic change will be made before release.

A gold upkeep cost might be better for the current balance of the game than the increased production cost of districts now that I think about it. With how amazingly gold scales into the late game having upkeep costs would keep production more in-line with it. There is an issue that arises from this however and that's by reducing production costs, you also reduce buy-out costs, which may have the adverse effect of making money even stronger than it already is, instead of balancing it. We're already so far into development like you said but it'd be an interesting experiment.

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 4:11:59 PM
Mausklickmoerder wrote:

Don't underestimate by how much districts increase the industry cost for further improvements. As it stands, you really don't need to nerf districts any further. Though I'd prefer gold upkeep over increased production costs, I don't think such a drastic change will be made before release.

I agree, Money maintenance might have been a preferable mechanic to the ever-escalating production costs, which mostly just penalizes you for investing in non-Industry districts, but the die seems to have been cast on that design decision, so its' now mostly about how best to structure other elements to get the best balance and the most fun within that core design decision.


Zolobolo wrote:

I am not sure how this all is expected to coem together: in my last playthrough I have built practically 0 infra: districts were more then enough


The great thing is that both approaches seem to work.  I've gone district-heavy and ignored infrastructure, and gone infrastructure-heavy with few districts.  


The other nice thing is that the impact of many Infrastructures depends on a number of factors (the resources you have, the districts you have and their relationship to other districts, the Pop you have and where you have assigned them to work, how many river/forest/etc tiles you're exploiting, etc).  It's definitely not a "buy them all" situation, and which ones you want first will differ with each city.  Money's a bit loose right now by mid-game, so that may be making the decisions less interesting than they should be.


It would also be nice, I think, to be able to "hide" infrastructure in the build queue, so that you don't always have to look at something you've already decided you don't want to build in that city.  Even if you could grey them out, the way non-useful infra gets greyed out, that would be a help.

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 5:04:45 PM
TravlingCanuck wrote:
The great thing is that both approaches seem to work.  I've gone district-heavy and ignored infrastructure, and gone infrastructure-heavy with few districts.  

Maybe that is the goal - I just cant tell even after having played a dozen games now


Sometimes it feels like you can runaway with districts (especially after having built at least one wonder already) but infra can be bought up in a single turn towards the mid game and with no furhter cost to anything


If I would have to hazard a guess I would say that the game might be balanced around a combination of production time and buyout costs

Pop and stability are there yes, but they only seem to be a limitation on player prgoress in the early game

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 5:16:03 PM

@TravlingCanuck 

Never too late to make changes, just 4 months ago they had that new population growth system, I think they should experiment with district upkeep. Maybe increase the base cost of districts and later era emblematic districts?

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4 years ago
Apr 28, 2021, 5:23:51 PM
Laliloluhla wrote:

@TravlingCanuck 

Never too late to make changes, just 4 months ago they had that new population growth system, I think they should experiment with district upkeep. Maybe increase the base cost of districts and later era emblematic districts?

I find the cost of districts to be ok, and their upkeep in stability to be almost ok at this point

The reason I feel its easy to run away with them are the numerous ways to get stability


Maybe that is the solution?: offloading most of the stability increasing effects to infra instead of wonders and religion?

Once we need to build infra to get stabiltiy to be able to expand we might get into a logical expansion loop...


Or districtis could be limited to the amount of pops in a city limiting how wide the city can strecht and forcing hte player to improve infra gain to get pops faster?

In this balance, districts would be expansion wide and infra expansion tall - They actually had a similar system in Endless Legend now that I think of it

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
May 15, 2021, 1:45:02 PM

Based on the early game play era's we had, I don't see a need to add a maintenance cost to the districts - perhaps that opinion will change for the later era's - but I saw it more as the maintenance was already being included behind the scene.  Many of the districts outputs were pretty low / not very impactful when first constructed but did improve as population and other infrastructure were created to support them.  
In these early era's it makes sense that the population working the district is performing the maintenance and upkeep - and that is reducing the total output that would be otherwise available.

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