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Feedback: City and Empire Stability

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3 years ago
Jun 23, 2021, 8:55:09 PM

If you wanted to dedicate time to this mechanic:


Population becomes the stability yield sink rather than districts. Add happiness as a yield similar to stability, population happiness dictates how high or low the per pop stability modifier is.

Luxury resources, infrastructure, districts, civic choices, random events,  winning battles and wars, and city statuses can affect happiness positively or negatively. Infrastructures such as Police Force and Secret Police increase stability directly. 


Its a simple addition that adds a push pull element to stability. Populations sink stability, the more population you have the more stability sinks there are, you build infrastructure and districts, sign civics and gain access to resources to make them happier to offset the stability sink. In addition to populations being the key provider of FIMS, Influence and Faith, you can start to make mechanics deeper whilst making them easier to understand - populations are the key, not random abstract yield modifiers on districts in a specific environment.

Stability is too much of a catch all, whilst simplifying choices by removing "unnecessary currencies" is certainly something you should always keep in mind, you can easily flip the other way resulting in currencies becoming too much of a catch all. The game needs more management and elements of the game affecting other elements of the game, in trying to streamline the elements too much you're getting rid of interesting management opportunities. 

Updated 3 years ago.
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3 years ago
Jun 24, 2021, 7:47:30 AM
Stability was meaningful for sure now, I couldn't mindlessly sweep ideologies to one side or other. Commons quarter needs a slight buff though. I also not very fond of that every single district that doesn't give stability - takes it in such a huge chunks. I feel like unique and emblematic quarters (one per territory/ one per world) should either never take from stability, or give -5 at most.
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3 years ago
Jun 26, 2021, 6:13:28 PM

Really happy with where stability is at the moment it is challenging in a good way but not punishing.

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3 years ago
Jun 28, 2021, 3:29:50 PM

i've touched on this in feedback I've left elsewhere, but I think stability a great mechanic atm, placing districts feels meaningful and you have to think about which ones to build with a limited amount of stability to spare. What breaks this is the Commons Quarters. Because they are not stability-limited, you can spam them and this results in huge areas covered in these quarters. I think Commons Quarters should be available from the start but capped (and possibly more powerful to compensate). Each Era you unlock could increase the cap so that you have a smooth increase in the scale of your cities. This would also mean you have to think more about where to place these districts as you develop, rather than doing CQ-suburbs through spam. Choosing Builder cultures could further increase the cap - at the moment they have nothing to increase stability, which is the primary limitation on district construction.


I also agree with the suggestion that the stability cost of EQs could be decreased. In my playthroughs EQs were almost the only district I built in the early eras due to stability restrictions. Ideally, I think they should supplement and synergise the building you are already doing, rather than dominating it.

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3 years ago
Jun 28, 2021, 3:48:08 PM
AOM wrote:
Bridger wrote:
AOM wrote:Just from a common sense perspective, it makes no sense to me that farms that provide life-sustaining food cause instability, while Commons districts (politics and art studios?) cause stability. 

It makes perfect sense to me.  As a city grows it requires more oversight in order to prevent crime/corruption.  So every additional district reduces stability naturally.


Commons Quarters maybe represent governmental functions (bureaucrats?).  The more places they are near, the more stability they can inject.  I don't see how spamming them can help, as they give very little stability unless you make sure they are surrounded by at least 3 other quarters.  Perhaps they need a ramping cost though?

A farm is not a city district in the real world or historically. They are rural elements. Farms provide food. Food is a stabilizing commodity. History tells us that. Common sense tells us that. Starving populations rebel to get food, as food is a necessity of life. If you don't get that, I don't know how to help you. Starving people rebel. This isn't rocket science. 


If you actually play the game, which from your comment, I'm guessing you haven't, spamming the pink Common Quarters provides substantial stability. You cluster them up, and it forms this large, ugly pink cluster in your city. Even if you think politicians somehow equal stability, it's difficult to imagine how having politicians covering 10 tiles all clustered together is beneficial. Especially at the same time your city is starving and can't place a farm district without the game deciding a farm district is the city's tipping point for rebellion. No, this is just silly, and it makes for really ugly looking cities. Not to mention the fact that it's boring always building the same district at the expense of every other type. It makes it so you can't build money or science districts. So you have a bunch of poor cities with lots of politicians and no food, science, or money. Not what I'm looking for in a game.

I have to agree with AOM. Food is what stabilizes human society. It's half of the "Bread and Circuses" concept. I would remove the stability penalty from farms and apply it to the other districts. This and (IMO) low city caps have been real frustrating points this last beta.

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3 years ago
Jun 28, 2021, 6:38:03 PM

One thing I could see is that each affinity have a main quarter and they pay less stability or gain more stability for that quarter, like this:

  • Farmers quarter for agarian
  • Makers quarter for builder
  • Market quarter for merchant
  • Research quarter for scientist
  • Garrison for militarist
  • Commons quarter for asthete
  • Attached territories, hamlets and harbors for expanionist
Obviously it may not be that balanced given some quarters are only accsible later and expanionist may be hard to find something to make up for the quarter spam possible of the other affinites. However the idea is that each affinity can atleast focus on the type of quarters they need to complete their main stars and this also add some strategy given if you depend heavy on the stability bonus to stay afloat you may have to transcend to keep the affinity or make huge adjustment for your next affinity.
Updated 3 years ago.
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3 years ago
Jun 30, 2021, 6:41:58 AM

Conquered cities and how they transitioned to being under control is unclear.


Governed cities don't seem to allow me to change their focus, or know what they would do anyway. And why some cities end being governed and some integrated.


Once a city has a territory added, the city view is limited and does not scale up well to cover the extra area, which is a shame because I really like the city and territory mechanics :-)


The siege mechanics are really good too, with the way fortifications expand over the core parts of the city.


Biggest problem I had with cities though is that I clearly need to know more about how they are working :-) The FIMS data and the optimal location tools really help with that, but there is a lot going on that I don't know yet with them.

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