Religion bonuses seem pretty good, but they could use a better end game rather feeling like faith generation or religion propagation suddenly becoming irrelevant after you get all your tenets. Maybe some high point competitive deeds for religion spread? Or having some religion related era stars? It feels kind of weirdly detached from the rest of the game. Its significance can also improve if the diplomacy system is a bit better tuned as it feels like grievances don't do really that much to encourage or deter any wars. 

rararasputin wrote:

• How do you feel about the speed of population growth?

I think the 8 food consumed per pop when you start by only making 6 food per farmer feels pretty silly. Maybe increase the threshold for how much food you need to get a pop but make them cost only 6 in upkeep. A farmer should at least be able to feed themself after all.

+1 for this! I think it might help with cities rapidly gaining pop one turn and then losing population the next, instead of simply stagnating. The cities grow at a nice rate; it's just annoying to need to micromanage by creating units or building with pop if you want to avoid the constant notifications for population loss through starvation.

workswithdragons wrote:

rararasputin wrote:

• How do you feel about the speed of population growth?

I think the 8 food consumed per pop when you start by only making 6 food per farmer feels pretty silly. Maybe increase the threshold for how much food you need to get a pop but make them cost only 6 in upkeep. A farmer should at least be able to feed themself after all.

+1 for this! I think it might help with cities rapidly gaining pop one turn and then losing population the next, instead of simply stagnating. The cities grow at a nice rate; it's just annoying to need to micromanage by creating units or building with pop if you want to avoid the constant notifications for population loss through starvation.

I mean, we are talking about ancient Era farming, before any basic technologies.
All it takes is one basic building, the granary.
Early farming was pretty shitty, it took humans quite some time to modify the plants we eat today.

Played my first game recently on normal difficulty. 

Either the eras are slightly too fast or the research is slightly too slow, potentially both. I went for mostly science cultures in each era because I wanted to get all of the industrial techs before the turn limit, yet I was consistently one era behind in research compared to my culture. I reached my contemporary era culture around turn 180 which unexpectedly ended my playthrough and my research was regrettably nowhere near the end of the tree. 

I was well ahead of the AI in science and era score after the classical era, yet it didn't feel too snowbally. I was usually second or third to adopt the next era culture because I'd stay behind to farm more score and this pacing felt appropriate. I did notice the catch-up mechanic era star that you passively obtain when someone else reaches the next era took too long to get. It was nearly an extra 50 turns to receive it when it first showed up for me which is longer than I spent in any era. I don't know if it decreased in turns when more players reached the next era as I never stuck around that long, but if not that could be a good addition. This star should be quicker to obtain to help players who have fallen behind. Catch-up mechanics like this are great for player balancing!

The population growth felt maybe a tiny bit fast. I never took on any agrarian cultures yet my pop in the capital city was still growing by one per turn for most of the game. This was vital when I had to build up an army so it definitely balanced out, but it still devalued the agrarian culture perks whenever I was considering them. Then again I built more farmer's quarters than anything else.

Gold and influence had fluctuating value for me throughout the game. In the early game, influence is extremely valuable for expanding while gold income was pretty sparse and the buyouts were too expensive to do anything with. In the late game, influence is mostly spent on claiming wonders so I'd say it's devalued while gold is essential for military upkeep and upgrades. I wish there was more to do with gold in the early game and more to do with influence in the late game.

Religion didn't feel overpowered and mine got to the max tier. My religion was extremely dominant on my continent and the tier thresholds and perks felt appropriate. 

The neolithic era felt slightly too fast. It's pretty easy for the units to multiply and spread which is great for exploration but it feels like it could get out of hand. This isn't a bad thing, it gives players something to do when there's not a city to manage yet. Perhaps there should be more incentive to keeping some units stacked to prevent snow-balling like more strong aggressive enemies to watch out for. Throw some sabertooth tigers in there or something after the first few turns or more bears.    

TLDR: Great pacing overall, slight tweaks could make it even better! The research was my biggest pacing issue as my technology consistently lagged an era behind my culture even while I was actively trying for science builds.   

Feature request! Could we have a notification trigger as soon as a city is running a deficit of food? Multiple times, now, I've lost citizens to starvation because I simply did not know the city in question was not producing enough sustenance. I know you're meant to have an eye on your cities, but during very busy periods of the game, such as when you're engaged in a war, you need that extra heads-up.

Gremkarc2 wrote:

Feature request! Could we have a notification trigger as soon as a city is running a deficit of food? Multiple times, now, I've lost citizens to starvation because I simply did not know the city in question was not producing enough sustenance. I know you're meant to have an eye on your cities, but during very busy periods of the game, such as when you're engaged in a war, you need that extra heads-up.

It's not like you are loosing pops, you are just not growing anymore.
One pop grows, next turn one dies, next turn one grows. This goes on until you get more food output.

Goodluck wrote:

I think farmer pops need a buff, right now you either produce more food than you need making farmers useless as they would only increase growth minimally, or you are in a situation in which they can't hardly feed themself and a few extra pops would only mean a little more influence. My suggestion is that farmers should give stability like 5 at start and make the healthcare line improve the stability farmers give instead of scientists. That would give more of an option to build large cities early and make pop rushing somewhat less attractive.

On the one hand you say pop rushing is to attractive, on the other hand you want a buff for farmers that make this possible, kinda weird.
Farmers are quite good overall, all it needs is the Granary which you can build almost immediately and your farmers pay for themselves.
Since every pop gives 2 influence with high stability, farmers are quite nice overall. (mostly for agrarians ofc)
They are the only pop that produces 8 so early.

AkashaX1885 wrote:

Goodluck wrote:

I think farmer pops need a buff, right now you either produce more food than you need making farmers useless as they would only increase growth minimally, or you are in a situation in which they can't hardly feed themself and a few extra pops would only mean a little more influence. My suggestion is that farmers should give stability like 5 at start and make the healthcare line improve the stability farmers give instead of scientists. That would give more of an option to build large cities early and make pop rushing somewhat less attractive.

On the one hand you say pop rushing is to attractive, on the other hand you want a buff for farmers that make this possible, kinda weird.
Farmers are quite good overall, all it needs is the Granary which you can build almost immediately and your farmers pay for themselves.
Since every pop gives 2 influence with high stability, farmers are quite nice overall. (mostly for agrarians ofc)
They are the only pop that produces 8 so early.

Population eat 8 food at turn as base and that increase with each pop the city have. Farms only help maintain the current rate of growth not speed up growth. Pop rushing work the best at low population numbers so you can quickly grow new pops to use for rushing, once it start to cost several pops it is no longer so useful. Staying at 100 stability is not an easy thing to do, it is possible if you don't build many districts that are not garrisons, which may make getting builder stars difficult and you may miss out of alot of resources.

I feel like science progression is a little bumpy. In the first era, with no science districts, it is painfully slow to research even the most basic techs. I find myself not completing the ancient era techs until I am in medieval. When you finally have access to the science district it is still hard to pump them out in sufficient numbers to keep up with era progression because of stability (not criticising how stability works now because I think it is fine, it really was a non-issue in the Victor build). Then fast forward to early modern you can pick the Joseon and completely do 3 eras worth of research in 30 turns, which is just so strange, sometimes I have been able to research the steam engine while still in early modern, which is wild to me because I usually enter early modern with a considerable tech deficit. I think maybe research costs should be less in the early eras but grow higher as the game progresses.

roger212 wrote:

I feel like science progression is a little bumpy. In the first era, with no science districts, it is painfully slow to research even the most basic techs. I find myself not completing the ancient era techs until I am in medieval. When you finally have access to the science district it is still hard to pump them out in sufficient numbers to keep up with era progression because of stability (not criticising how stability works now because I think it is fine, it really was a non-issue in the Victor build). Then fast forward to early modern you can pick the Joseon and completely do 3 eras worth of research in 30 turns, which is just so strange, sometimes I have been able to research the steam engine while still in early modern, which is wild to me because I usually enter early modern with a considerable tech deficit. I think maybe research costs should be less in the early eras but grow higher as the game progresses.

I think tech cost is fine, in ancient era you need to assign population on science to get the ancient era techs at a resonable rate.

Goodluck wrote:

roger212 wrote:

I feel like science progression is a little bumpy. In the first era, with no science districts, it is painfully slow to research even the most basic techs. I find myself not completing the ancient era techs until I am in medieval. When you finally have access to the science district it is still hard to pump them out in sufficient numbers to keep up with era progression because of stability (not criticising how stability works now because I think it is fine, it really was a non-issue in the Victor build). Then fast forward to early modern you can pick the Joseon and completely do 3 eras worth of research in 30 turns, which is just so strange, sometimes I have been able to research the steam engine while still in early modern, which is wild to me because I usually enter early modern with a considerable tech deficit. I think maybe research costs should be less in the early eras but grow higher as the game progresses.

I think tech cost is fine, in ancient era you need to assign population on science to get the ancient era techs at a resonable rate.

While it is true that you can speed your research up this way, I do not believe this method is sufficient to overcome the substantial mismatch between the pace of research and the pace with which eras change. First, if you move your people into the science jobs, you have fewer in the farm jobs, and your population will not grow well. If you move them there from industry jobs, you won't have the production needed to efficiently build science infrastructure buildings. I tried to "rush" science by selecting a mountainous spot on the map and the Zhou, and ensuring a worker or two was in the science section in each city. I kept the Zhou for two eras and then switched to the Umayyads in the Medieval era and the Joseon in the Early Modern. Going this route, with a strong focus on science the entire way, I was not able to complete each era's techs before moving to the next era. One probable reason for that is my population wasn't very large because I had never been a food culture. One might guess that simply blasting science will move you through the tree faster. After experimenting, I think you can't move quickly through the tree without sufficient population and production as well as science. This is a good thing, and the requirement for a well-rounded empire should be retained, in my opinion. I think the best solution is to either make it a little cheaper to research tech or a little tougher to advance through the eras (an option I prefer to easier tech research, tbh). Alternatively, era advancement could be contingent on having sufficient stars and a certain percentage of tech researched. Another option would be to make certain techs mandatory for advancement to the next era. Either alternative would connect era advancement to the tech tree without dispensing with the star/fame system.

AOM wrote:

Goodluck wrote:

roger212 wrote:

I feel like science progression is a little bumpy. In the first era, with no science districts, it is painfully slow to research even the most basic techs. I find myself not completing the ancient era techs until I am in medieval. When you finally have access to the science district it is still hard to pump them out in sufficient numbers to keep up with era progression because of stability (not criticising how stability works now because I think it is fine, it really was a non-issue in the Victor build). Then fast forward to early modern you can pick the Joseon and completely do 3 eras worth of research in 30 turns, which is just so strange, sometimes I have been able to research the steam engine while still in early modern, which is wild to me because I usually enter early modern with a considerable tech deficit. I think maybe research costs should be less in the early eras but grow higher as the game progresses.

I think tech cost is fine, in ancient era you need to assign population on science to get the ancient era techs at a resonable rate.

While it is true that you can speed your research up this way, I do not believe this method is sufficient to overcome the substantial mismatch between the pace of research and the pace with which eras change. First, if you move your people into the science jobs, you have fewer in the farm jobs, and your population will not grow well. If you move them there from industry jobs, you won't have the production needed to efficiently build science infrastructure buildings. I tried to "rush" science by selecting a mountainous spot on the map and the Zhou, and ensuring a worker or two was in the science section in each city. I kept the Zhou for two eras and then switched to the Umayyads in the Medieval era and the Joseon in the Early Modern. Going this route, with a strong focus on science the entire way, I was not able to complete each era's techs before moving to the next era. One probable reason for that is my population wasn't very large because I had never been a food culture. One might guess that simply blasting science will move you through the tree faster. After experimenting, I think you can't move quickly through the tree without sufficient population and production as well as science. This is a good thing, and the requirement for a well-rounded empire should be retained, in my opinion. I think the best solution is to either make it a little cheaper to research tech or a little tougher to advance through the eras (an option I prefer to easier tech research, tbh). Alternatively, era advancement could be contingent on having sufficient stars and a certain percentage of tech researched. Another option would be to make certain techs mandatory for advancement to the next era. Either alternative would connect era advancement to the tech tree without dispensing with the star/fame system.

Agree with AOM about science and that era stars should definitely be earned more slowly or that one should need to get more of them to progress.

I think that(not surprisingly considering where i'm posting) the game needs to be slowed down and there should be an increased amount of building to create a more complete experience and sense of interaction. Too much of just hitting  "next turn" otherwise. Also, increasing the size and number of the territories and/or lessening movement points to create a vaster, more realistic world. As well I think it could be beneficial to create a dual stream of construction(one for infrastructure, one for military units) which would create more dynamism in the world.

In my current game I reached turn 70 and was ready to enter the medieval era even though I only had about half of the tech of the classical era and it was 1926 BCE. I was playing as the Phoenicians and then the Carthaginians and yet I had my first boat only 5 turns before while trying to build the necessary infrastructure to grow and compete. Also, religion really needs to be better explained. I mean, it seems powerful but then I have no idea what it can actually accomplish besides forcing another player to change to yours(with the right civic chosen).

I apologize if this is garbled, I don't have the time to clean it up. Mostly good game so far, the pacing is the most pressing issue.

Thanks for listening and keep up the good work.

Hi, I will answer your question after playing 3 and a half games. I hope it can help. Of course I will answer from my personal experience, and some troubles that I've encountered may be due my low game skill rather than a problem with the game itself.

-How does your progress through the eras feel? Is it too fast or too slow?

Era progress was fast, but I'm guessing that it's because of the speed setting chose by the developers for this closed beta. Usually in this kind of games I always choose slower speed, but nonetheless I've enjoyed my progress trough the ages: using a single civilization for 30/40 turns each was fine, even if it's not my cup of tea.

-Do you feel your research progress roughly matches your progress through the eras? Does it match what you would expect for a game meant to last about 300 turns?

Absolutely not. Techs cost felt like it was meant for a 4/500 turns game. I know I can improve my science production, but not even the AI (level 5 and 6 difficulty) couldn't keep the pace. 

I'v fought a war between Austro-Hungarians and Italians (I mean, a classic), but all the armies were made of halabardiers, arquibusiers, knights and elephants (!!!). Again, difficulty level 6/7.

It ruined my expirience quite a bit. I may be bad at playing, but if even the AI can't keep the pace there's a problem

-How do you feel about the speed of population growth?

Personally I don't find any issue about this topic, all good

-How do you feel about the value and the growth of the different resources (Including Influence)

Let's start with influence. In early game you are starving for it, expecially because now you need it for the civics. But quite soon it gets better.

Food and production are fine.

Money is like influence, with the difference that money costs are too high early on, and honestly buyouts are not a valid option until mid/late game.

-Are religions still to powerful, or are the bonuses at a more appropriate level now?

No problem with religion, everything fine for me

-How does the neolithic era feel now? Can you still grow your population too quickly?

Neolithic is a small but quite interesting feature of Humankind. I always have fun with it. It is a bit too fast, but again, this is because the game speed is set on "fast" for this opendev. 

I'm sure that with different speed settings it will adjust with the pace of the game.

How does your progress through the eras feel? Is it too fast or too slow?

Way too fast! I don't get the point to reach industrial era in 1300. Historically it was the start of the Renaissance but if that's people is wanting you may have right.

Do you feel your research progress roughly matches your progress through the eras? Does it match what you would expect for a game meant to last about 300 turns?

Absolutely not! But without going wild on science early and by progressively increase the science income i figured out that the techs discovered almost match with the historical level. That means the tech progression seems balance and the problem comes from the Eras pace. I don't understand the 300 turns that should last the game as with these settings it should last 450 turns...

 How do you feel about the speed of population growth?

It seems too fast too quickly, it should be linear instead of exponential until the industrial revolution.

How do you feel about the value and the growth of the different resources (Including Influence)

Influence is pilling up so a lot of features from culture and building are useless and it's the same for gold which  is coming from nowhere. Science seems balanced as well as food (but agree with the previous comments about it) and production. 

Are religions still to powerful, or are the bonuses at a more appropriate level now?

Seems good, no problem with it

How does your progress through the eras feel? Is it too fast or too slow?

• For me, the progress through the eras felt appropriate. I had enough time to build my special districts for example. The time to earn era stars also felt appropriate.

Do you feel your research progress roughly matches your progress through the eras? Does it match what you would expect for a game meant to last about 300 turns?

• Even though I picked some scientific cultures it was not possible for me to keep research and era progress in line. I think not the time you spend in an era is the problem there, but the science is too slow. In both of my playthroughs on Empire difficulty I had the most technology researched, but still, after finishing the industrial era I had no industrial era technology researched. For me, the main problem in the research progress is that scientific quarters feel too weak in my opinion. It normally felt more reasonable to invest in more farmer quarters and hamlets and then assigning my population as researchers instead of building scientific quarters on its one, because population is much more powerful and divers.

How do you feel about the speed of population growth?

• In this closed dev I liked the speed of population growth. It was possible to build up a huge population, but than you had to keep your food production in mind all the time. 

How do you feel about the value and the growth of the different resources (Including Influence)?

• I am really happy that money is less powerful than before, because in the previous open devs industry felt completely unimportant when everything could be bought with gold. I also like the changes that civics are now bought with influence, making influence very important in the beginning of the game. I still think that influence gets unimportant in mid/end game, because when the map is settled, and civics unlocked there is not much to spend the influence on left.

Are religions still too powerful, or are the bonuses at a more appropriate level now?

• The power of religions is definitely moving in the right direction, but I still think that it is quite powerful. Manly because you don´t have to do much to increase your religion. Just build your stone rings whenever you want and maybe one or two wonders, and you get nice religion bonuses without doing much for it anymore.

How does the Neolithic era feel now? Can you still grow your population too quickly?

• Neolithic era felt fine for me.

This Closed Beta was my first time getting my hands on Humankind.

• Era progress seemed a bit too fast overall, but mostly in the late-game. In my game, it felt like I blitzed through the Industrial Era in about 15 turns. It might be because the AI always seems to culture rush, so the player is disincentivized from staying in the current era longer than they have to.
• Research pacing felt pretty good, but it lagged far behind Era progress. When I advanced to Contemporary Era, I was just getting into Early Modern techs. (This, after taking Joseon.) Overall, Research pacing seems just about perfect, Era pacing needs to match it.
• Population growth feels good. I couldn't seem to get pops to grow faster than 1/turn, even with 3 agrarian cultures in a row, and a 6 territory megacity (I wanted to try a playthrough that used forced labor almost exclusively).
• Overall, resources felt good.  However, buyout costs scaled to much. Around turn 140-ish, I was seeing districts (not even shared districts) that wanted me to pay 27k Money, or 30 (yes, 30)pops in Forced Labor. I had been using buyouts occasionally up until this point, as I did not have any cultures that benefited them. However, at this point, buyouts may as well not have been an option. Also, Influence seemed a bit too plentiful late game. Without taking any Aesthete cultures, I was sitting on 20k (and this was while claiming and building wonder quite quickly).
• Religious tenets seem relatively balanced (considering the investment necessary). However, they spike to sharply at tier 3 tenets. Tier 1 and 2 are fairly negligible for the most part, and tier 3 are a big power spike (100 > 500 science output in my game). Smooth out the curve a bit.
• Neolithic feels good.