Improve Ground combat - Endless Space

Improve Ground combat

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DJJ66

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DJJ66

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12 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 4:02:22 PM

I would really like to have the invasion fleets have some more significance. When you look back at games such as Masters of Orion and Galactic Civ 2 you had all these bells and whistles which added to the game's overall style and really made you feel as if there was a big invasion bearing down upon the planet. Having in mind that an invasion fleet is essentially hurtling soldiers down into the planet, having combat drops all over the system and squaring off against the locals in all corners of the world, resulting in what should be an epic planet wide struggle for dimination while the orbiting ships rain hell on the opposition. This feeling is not achieved through a small circle changing color every turn.

Sure Galactic Civ 2's combat is as much hands off as ES and the ground combat also was the end result of "under the hood" stat calculations, tech and whatnot, however there was impact with it, there was a real sense of satisfaction to see your ground armies obliterate the opposing forces in what was a few seconds worth of what was essentially small dots firing laser bolts at each other in droves untill the opposing side keeled over.

The overall criticism that seems to permeate this game is just how empty and lifeless it feels, should ground combat play a bigger role, or just have the same sort of combat screen to it showing advancing or retreating forces, or, hell, pretty much anything as opposed to simply watching a loading bar going up would go a long way to counter some of that lifelessness.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 4:08:08 PM

I personally don't want the invasion to slow down the games warfare, as i believe the games focus should be on the ship-to-ship warfare.

However a greater visual aid for invasions would be cool and atmospheric.

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DJJ66

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DJJ66

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12 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 4:17:14 PM

That's precisely what I mean. Other games have implemented this really well, and in pretty much all cases it adds to the overall experience when you have something that has you seeing your ground forces marching through the planet. I've no problems with it being hands off, at all, but at least give us something interesting or that aids the epic feel that is an intergalactic war.

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Eidelon

Old

Eidelon

Old

12 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 7:39:26 PM

I agree with you completely. At the minute staring at a bar gradually filling up when invading is perhaps the most dull and unfulfillinh aspect of Endless Space. Sure the arguement for the game to focus on Ship to Ship combat is valid but in that case, why not just have no Invasion and allow you to instantly take over a system? Because whether people like it or not taking over systems is a key aspect of Endless Space especially if you going for the Supremacy Victory. To give it some kind of greater visual representation whether it be a more interesting visual aid or some quick form of ground combat would ultimately make the game better and feel more fulfilling and 'epic' and I don't see how it would take away from anything else. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Oh and Master of Orion did an excellent job in this respect, but I'm not asking for something as detailed as that necessarily. It's a good example of good ground combat without taking away from the rest of the game though.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 2:11:09 AM

MOO or GalCiv way of doing it was a little strange to me, we just line up and blast each other?

Id like to see a cinematic when you win an invasion (In the style of the other ones) Of troops rolling through streets and battles throughout the city, finally your troops put your flag at the top of the capital building and victory is declared! Id like your empires technology and your fleets invasion mods to change the cinematic as well, with troops using better weapons and bombardment taking out fortifications.

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n18991c

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n18991c

Old

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 9:59:24 AM

Igncom1 wrote:
Id like to see a cinematic when you win an invasion (In the style of the other ones) Of troops rolling through streets and battles throughout the city, finally your troops put your flag at the top of the capital building and victory is declared! Id like your empires technology and your fleets invasion mods to change the cinematic as well, with troops using better weapons and bombardment taking out fortifications.

smiley: approval

. would be sweet.

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shintsu

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shintsu

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 12:04:33 PM

+ on this one a bit more character would be nice

Maybe add some options where you can chose to do a quick and dirty grab that will destroy improvements and civilians while if you chose the other route less damage will be done but it takes a lot longer to achive

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Capt_Frank

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Capt_Frank

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12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 2:17:12 PM

What about using phases and cards during the ground invasion process?

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DJJ66

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DJJ66

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 5:17:56 PM

shintsu wrote:
+ on this one a bit more character would be nice

Maybe add some options where you can chose to do a quick and dirty grab that will destroy improvements and civilians while if you chose the other route less damage will be done but it takes a lot longer to achive

This! No doubt!

This + a cinematic or something would add a lot more value to taking a planet over, + add weight to the overall war strategy

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AtomSoldat

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AtomSoldat

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 5:36:25 PM

A little video of soldiers assaulting an enemy position,

a victory parade, or perhaps the burning remnants of the failed defenders/attackers after such a siege would be a nice touch

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VIPNasarog

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I know nothing. To learn more, come visit us @ eXplorminate.net

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 5:41:24 PM

I like where you're going with this. THere is one game that I still play called Sid Meier's Pirates. That has a very deep ground combat model. I could see ES having something like that released in an expansion. Now that would be proper ground combat tbs style. On another note, what about something like Imperium Galactica 2's ground combat?

Just my 0.02 cents.

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Nomas

Yussho

Nomas

Yussho

12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 6:27:21 PM

Nasarog wrote:
I like where you're going with this. THere is one game that I still play called Sid Meier's Pirates. That has a very deep ground combat model. I could see ES having something like that released in an expansion. Now that would be proper ground combat tbs style. On another note, what about something like Imperium Galactica 2's ground combat?

Just my 0.02 cents.

Sid Meier's Pirates ground combat could be a nice addition. Battlefields wasnt enormous and combat was fast phased. But it was also turn based. Turn based combat its not an option for ES at least for the moment. Devs want a fast combat mode so the multiplayer games are not slowed down. ES ground combat must be something like the space combat (cinematic based using battle cards).

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AtomSoldat

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AtomSoldat

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12 years ago

Jul 29, 2012, 7:31:25 PM

You could perhaps have first the attacker and then the defender choose a general strategy when a system comes under attack.

The efficiency could be determined by racial traits and the commander's abilities. It would be good if you could switch strategies,

if you suddenly need to take a system faster than you expected, or if your reinforcements arrive and your scorched-earth-policy is no longer required.

Offense

General:

Orbital Bombardment: Bomb everything to bits. Wrecks the planets, but very fast acquisition-speed and only somewhat expensive.

Collaboratuers: Attempt to win part of the System's population over to your cause. Some damage, slow acquisition, very expensive

Mass Assault: Your soldiers invade the planet directly. Minor damage, some boni on acquistion speed ( more/less if your empire has fearless/feeble warriors) somewhat expensive.

Blockade: Your ships prevent all vessels from entering or exiting the system. No damage, very slow acquisition, inexpensive.

Defense:

Scorched earth: Your troops blow up anything worthwile to the enemy. Damage to the planet, acquisition slightly slowed.

Organized defense: Attempt to repulse the attackers from the system. Acquisition speed slowed ( or perhaps even reversed, depending on the enemy's ships and your defenses? ), expensive.

Guerilla-Warfare: Train the local population to hamper the invaders wherever they can. Acquisition somewhat slowed, somewhat expensive, depletes population.

No resistance: Order the population to remain calm, there is absolutely no reason to panic. Normal acquisition-speed.

Edit: This seems to be the wrong section of the forum to suggest this, so i made a new thread here.

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Talby

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Talby

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 5:10:05 AM

It would be cool, imo, if when the "invasion bar" was flipping, one could scroll into the system/planetary view screen, and ships could be seen orbiting/bombarding the planets. Perhaps even zooming into the planet's atmosphere for high-altitude bomb-viewing pleasure?

This way, it wouldn't slow down turns like ship to ship battles do for MP. The player could simply inspect their invasion at their leisure, without the need of forcing anyone to watch a cinematic (though I do love them . . . I understand some curmudgeons don't like pretty lights and explosions).

Btw, if any devs end up reading this . . . the planetary animations for anomalies are a step in the right direction. Anything that connects TEXT or SYMBOLS to VISUALS. The galactic events could be much cooler (especially the blackhole one!!) if they had associated animations.

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seanw3

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seanw3

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 6:47:00 AM

Why not make invasion the same as battles? If that is the tempo, stick to it. Each player should have a list of invasion tactics that can be countered by defensive tactics. Hell, defense improvements could even open up new defense tactics or even prevent the invader from using certain powerful options.

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THJT-9

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THJT-9

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 11:53:43 AM

Heard this idea from TB's WTF video, and completely agree with it. While it's more a of a ship & space fighting game so (as cool as it may be) cards and ground assualts may not fit as a battle system (although if it was added I would agree it should be cards like the ship battles) a short cinematic, showing your ship's invasion upgrades as well, sounds like a great idea and would definately add culture to the game and make invasions less stale.

+1 to this.

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DJJ66

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DJJ66

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 1:39:43 PM

I am so glad I'm not the only one that was wishing for ground combat to have a bit more depth in the overall scheme of things.

Sure the game might be pure space empire with ship vs ship combat as focus, but there's so much that can be done with the little things to make the experience more fulfilling.

This is something I learned from Mass Effect 3's interactions, there are a ton of small details that come by in the form of NPC banter and side quests that take about 5 minutes of fetch something and return. Though the quests may be a chore, the end result is some of the most profound implied character developments and insight into what's going on in the rest of the galaxy, making it feel alive and in the brink of apocalypse.

This is what this game needs in order to stand out. The graphics are gorgeous, the interface is one of the best I've seen in the genre, but there's an inherent empty feeling from the lifelessness of it all. Having options for the populous, some even race specific, could go a long way.

Fingers crossed the devs are seeing this.

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Phantis_Mantis

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Phantis_Mantis

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 7:55:44 PM

Another cool addition to a system invasion could be defenses on a planets moon (if it has one). It would make for a great cinematic and add a few cool tactics, plus giving the defenders a bombardment of their own to hamper the invading forces. You could even have a screen for tactics to use on the moon, like infiltration (speedy and gains control of gun but very risky), sabotage (quickly destroys the base but very risky), mass bombardment (medium speed, destroys the station but you have to face the cannon itself) or all out ground assault (slow but can stop the gun from firing and, if successful, gains control of the gun). You could even upgrade the station to give it a resistance to an invasion like a planet has. One more thought, a last effort to stop an enemy landing, the planetary blockade of space stations that have to be destroyed for the ground invasion to take place and a fleet to fight as-well. But defenses like this have to be costly otherwise everywhere would have them and invasions would be near impossible on a galactic scale and they have to be unlocked by a high-tech so that you don't get them early on!

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Phantis_Mantis

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Phantis_Mantis

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 8:07:53 PM

Oh, but these are strategies that take at least a turn to complete, so the game doesn't get filled up with cinematic's, there's only one when a significant event has occurred, like a planets orbital defenses being overrun.

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VIPNasarog

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I know nothing. To learn more, come visit us @ eXplorminate.net

VIPNasarog

Analyzer Officer

12 years ago

Jul 30, 2012, 10:58:30 PM

Nomas wrote:
Sid Meier's Pirates ground combat could be a nice addition. Battlefields wasnt enormous and combat was fast phased. But it was also turn based. Turn based combat its not an option for ES at least for the moment. Devs want a fast combat mode so the multiplayer games are not slowed down. ES ground combat must be something like the space combat (cinematic based using battle cards).

I see. Well, a cinematic resolving the ground combat that could last several turns if there are multiple defense structures and ground-based units would work. To be completely honest here, I do not dislike the cinematic combat.

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