When i spoke about ground combat thats what i meant. A cinematic combat with possible battle cards that ends like CIV 1 :coolgood old memories...) Also in order to avoid unnecessary micromanagement we can have a prefix (thats why i am talking for dedicated transports). When you build a troop transport its automatically full of troops-armor-robots etc. A difference per race would be a nice addition also. (Hissho more troops perhaps, Sophons use o robots :cool

Capt_Frank wrote:
What about using phases and cards during the ground invasion process?

I would love to see that. Leaves room for expansion of ground invasion techs like power armour, mechs, shield techs etc.

You could easily have a victory, or defeat animation going along with that too. Although....that would cost money... I think it would make the end product much more addictive.



Keeping it to the card based battle would mean no slowdown of multiplayer games to boot. Good idea.

Indeed, a system where you create soliders, tanks etc. on a system, load them into a invasion ship and then move that along with the rest of your fleet to the planet you want to invade.





To create an army you would convert one population on a planet into a ground army which can be used to invade or guard a planet. When garrisoned on a planet the army takes up one population but increases the ground defense of the planet more than standard civilian workers, also the army can be shifted onto a ship and transported for use in ground invasion.



The ground of defense of an army will depend on technologies and the combat value of garrisoned soliders + civilians VS invading ground troops (NOTE maximum number of troops will be max population of planet and also under such circumstances that particular planet would not be producing, doing research or gaining dust (asides from bonuses from buildings).



This is how I invisage a combat would work when you would reach the planet: (either cinematics or auto for any of these combats)



1. Space combat 3 phase 'card' system (if enemy ships present)

2. Landing phase 3 phase 'card' system (invader vs. planetary defenses eg. Cinematics of Planetary Cannons firing off, Drop ships flying through the atmosphere, firing etc.)

3. Ground phase 3 phase 'card' system (invader vs. ground forces eg. Cinematic of ships landing, soliders fighting in the street, tanks firing off etc.





As in space depending on the strength of your invasion force vs. the planetary defenses will determine if you progress to the ground phase and similarly in the ground phase the strength of troops, tanks etc. will be need to win the world.



In the game as you play you will find some systems with really good planetary defenses and poor soliders/tanks and some that are the exact opposite and some with a bit of both. This will lead to continued diversity in strategy that will need to be applied to win the game, also for players that don't want to use this extended combat allow then in options to revert to current system.

I am behind this idea.

Though I would suggest that they use the pre-existing space battle system for invasion. You see the invasion ships fly into the planet while you select your "Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3" cards.

Once Phase 1 begins, you and the AI attack. Your ships blast their cities while their AA guns fire at your ships.

During Phase 2, you see hover tanks or what ever other ground vehicles you have loaded (they could be designed much as the in game ship design is done. Or maybe more like the ship design in Legends of Pegasus) dropped from your ship and roll through the environment, blasting whatever the enemy has to defence.

During Phase 3, the troop transport vehicles deploy and unload in the cities, and you see your troops blasting the enemy troops/civies/etc.



Of course, what you see would depend on what cards are chosen, as these would determine your invasion tactic.

It would still keep the flavour of the game, and would actually make defence traits and technology useful.





EDIT: I just seen LordRicco's post. We had similar thoughts. It would be great!

LordRicco wrote:
Indeed, a system where you create soliders, tanks etc. on a system, load them into a invasion ship and then move that along with the rest of your fleet to the planet you want to invade.





To create an army you would convert one population on a planet into a ground army which can be used to invade or guard a planet. When garrisoned on a planet the army takes up one population but increases the ground defense of the planet more than standard civilian workers, also the army can be shifted onto a ship and transported for use in ground invasion.



The ground of defense of an army will depend on technologies and the combat value of garrisoned soliders + civilians VS invading ground troops (NOTE maximum number of troops will be max population of planet and also under such circumstances that particular planet would not be producing, doing research or gaining dust (asides from bonuses from buildings).



This is how I invisage a combat would work when you would reach the planet: (either cinematics or auto for any of these combats)



1. Space combat 3 phase 'card' system (if enemy ships present)

2. Landing phase 3 phase 'card' system (invader vs. planetary defenses eg. Cinematics of Planetary Cannons firing off, Drop ships flying through the atmosphere, firing etc.)

3. Ground phase 3 phase 'card' system (invader vs. ground forces eg. Cinematic of ships landing, soliders fighting in the street, tanks firing off etc.





As in space depending on the strength of your invasion force vs. the planetary defenses will determine if you progress to the ground phase and similarly in the ground phase the strength of troops, tanks etc. will be need to win the world.



In the game as you play you will find some systems with really good planetary defenses and poor soliders/tanks and some that are the exact opposite and some with a bit of both. This will lead to continued diversity in strategy that will need to be applied to win the game, also for players that don't want to use this extended combat allow then in options to revert to current system.

Thanks Orcus2190, I am really hoping it happens

Supposedly this too will be addressed with the first expansion. I'm not too happy about that. I'd rather they added some rudimentary option for us to play with and hammer out prior to the release of the first expansion. This should have been included with the game.

Nasarog wrote:
Supposedly this too will be addressed with the first expansion. I'm not too happy about that. I'd rather they added some rudimentary option for us to play with and hammer out prior to the release of the first expansion. This should have been included with the game.

I like you idea Lord Ricco but i agree with Nasarog too, ground combat should be in the game in the first place but better late than never

I would prefer if they left ground offensives to the current format, but give visuals such as still motion pictures to illustrate the combat situation.



mostly shown in 4 phases, skippable.



1) Commencement of the invasion(invasion is initiated). short clips of pictoral slide shows to show the loading of men and resources into dropships, followed by the initial orbital bombardment then waves and waves of dropships are fired into the planet as well as some early skirmishes with the enemy.



2) Heavy engagement with the enemy(invasion is 50% done). A short narration of the combat situation, showing fighting between armies, heavy losses on both sides, followed by well executed orbital bombardment, wiping out defenses, more dropships/reinforcements are shown dropping in.



3) Taking the enemy's capital(invasion is 90% done). Another narration, showing the planet's final stand against your invasion troops, ending off in the battle for their capital.



4a) System is successfully taken(invasion 100%). Slide show of the horrors of war, resistance fighters are rounded up and executed. instances of planets in ruins, a victory parade of your ground forces.



4b) Invasion failed.(Invasive fleet destroyed). Your army has no way out of the planet as well as losing orbital support and subsequently losing the war. War machines destroyed, many ran into hiding, not all were successful, grim pictures of execution of your soldiers and rounded up for forced labour.



5a) Craver's version. (Invasion 100%). Craver soldiers shown rounding up and consuming the populace(dead/alive) as well as the planet resources to subdue their insatiable hunger.

This is a good idea and all, but I feel that right now the devs are leaning more towards other issues rather than this particular thing in the game.

Also, that is a huge amount of work. It's almost an entirely other game.



I think the first thing we will see of an improved invasion mechanic will be orbital/planetary defenses. A system where the planet can actually 'fight' an enemy fleet using the current three phase system. Like how cities can defend themselves in Civ without the need for garrisoned troops.



It allows for a suit of system upgrades for this mechanics. Technologies too. Things like orbital guns, ground defenses. Bunkers and installations, that sort of thing. And it allows for upgrades to your ships themselves along the same lines. Drop pods. Bombardment platforms, artillery and such.





I think going from what we have now - ship to ship combat - to a full-on ground assault mechanic with tanks and troops. That's too big of a jump. Superfluous even.



All the game needs is for invasion to be more than waiting for a meter to fill up over time. A siege mode expansion, with defensive space stations, planetary defenses and ground assault modules for ships. That's all.



Turning this into Total War is nonsense and far too much work.

Just thought I'd add my two cents. I just bought the game and have played for about 9 hours straight, and the lack of any sort of indication that I have taken a system really bothers me. Half the time I don't even know that I've actually conquered one. I like LordRicco's idea but would keep it a single three-phase round like space combat.



Phase 1: Planetary Insertion - Drop ships descending, while ships engage orbital/ground defences

Phase 2: Approach/Start of Siege - Invading army approaching capital whilst fighting defender (for simplicities sake since in "reality" ground combat would be engaged on multiple planets on a global scale to successfully gain control of the entire system)

Phase 3: Final siege/Last Stand - Attacker wins, successfully gaining control of system

- Defender wins, successfully anihilating attacker

- Stalemate, combat could continue on following turn



Each phase would play a card just like space combat. IMHO this would add some much needed depth to planetary conquests, using a mechanic already implemented in the game. One could go a step further, as has been suggested, by adding the ability to design drop ships/ground units and the ability to deploy ground batteries and orbital platforms for system defence. This could be implemented by creating a new tech branch. I realize that is a lot of work, but something to strive for.



At the very least, perhaps a pop up message telling me I've conquered such and such system, so atleast when I was off staring at some other corner of the galaxy, I would know that I finally conquered something.

/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12509-new-invasion-model-works-same-as-befoe-but-now-looks-cooler



I feel it is the time to present a suggestion of mine for this purpose.



It won't be as grand as all of your suggestions, but it is pity in depth for allowing system, tech and population affect how a invasion works.



With a nice GUI in the said system, and possibly an indicator on the strategic map it'll look cool.

I want planets so have a offensive way to fight ships. sucks only having defensive improvements on planets.

+1 missile module per population in system per turn?



You could use it like the Civ 5 bombardment, with the enemy fleet facing combat against your incoming missiles (And future strikecraft).

EDIT: I typed up an invasion game proposal into a formal thread of its own and removed it from this post. Please see this link:

/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12753-enhanced-invasion-mechanics-and-strategy

It's not a ground combat minigame but evolved into tactics used on the system micro scale that could open up new strategic opportunities on the empire vs empire game.



============



I always thought the 4x game ground invasion movies were kinda cheesy to watch. They're also unrepresentative from a lore perspective of a true ground invasion being settled by a single battle, especially if you are attacking multiple planets at once ala Endless Space.



I agree there should be a graphical indication of system capture progress, perhaps explosions and small ships flying around when you zoom in on the planet/system screen in addition to visuals on the galactic map. You could have generic racial battleships hovering over the planets and firing down / sending dropships to the surface. I do not want a silly movie of army men shooting each other with pewpew lasers until the other side falls over.



The visuals should be built into the empire-wide gui regardless of any inclusion of a ground battle minigame.

There is an relatively easy way to add an graphic improvement on invasion, just add and appearance related wonder-like graphic, so when one system is under attack the most populated planet will temporarely add an wonder graphic, which includes explotion on the planet surface, laser shooting towards sky, and faction defence fighter fly around and shot in the air. also invasion ship orbiting the planet, invasion fighters also fly and shoot around! fighter's appearence are related to the defencer and invader, also you can have many stages according to who's winning or what ground defence improvement they've got or what invasion module on the ship. you got the idea!



so all the graphics are in the system view, but not the galaxy view, just a few wonder-like graphic to make, with some possible coding~ at least it is what i find easy to do~

All these sound nice but they will have to be system wide effects since when you invade you invade the whole system and not just a planet. It may slow down the game but i think one planet at a time is more "realistic"

I think invasion only affect the most populated planet is because all the defence improvement are system wise, but they are built on a planet, assuming the"headquater" should be on the same planet, it is very understandable that the whole system will fall when all these improvement are conqured.



of course, graphically, one planet graphic is always easier to work on.

I recently returned to Endless Space after seeing that Amplitude was pumping out some nice free content. To be honest, when the game first came out I was not that enthused. I know some people really liked it - and I could definitely see the long term potential (I still believe that ES will become a new classic with an expansion or two under its belt) - but the game got little more than a yawn from me shortly after release. However, now seems to be a different story! After reinstalling the game a few days ago, I *really* like how the game now feels! It is coming along nicely! So much so, that after losing my first game, I immediately began a second campaign. Haven't done that before with ES.



But there is still one thing that is really dragging down my enthusiasm for ES and that is the lackluster planetary invasions. They really feel like an afterthought that was shoved into the game at the last moment.



Some thoughts I had:



1) The game needs to be much clearer when a planetary system is threatened by a blockade/invasion. Right now, the game pretty much whispers this fact with tiny ships, tiny circles and tiny red "blockade" labels on the system overview screen. When a system is under threat, I would at least expect some sort of big red flashing crosshair placed over the targeted system - something that really shouts "we have a problem here!".



2) When a system is successfully invaded, I would really appreciate an announcement of some type - something like one of those awesome art pieces that are found in other areas of ES, one accompanied by an explanation of gain/loss. Something that really shouts "You just lost/won this system" with the attendant "boo / huzzah" emotionalism.



3) During the course of my last campaign, I lost my planetary capital. I was expecting to lose the game as a result, but shockingly nothing happened - no special notice, no "game over" screen , nothing. I think even the game was confused as to what this meant because in place of my planetary capital crown icon was a "?" icon. LOL! Again, this needs to be worked on. At a minimum, an illustrated "you lost your capital" message should pop up, which an explanation of what, if any, effects would result.





Those are my biggest grips with the system so far. While I do hope/expect(!) that the actual mechanics of planetary invasions will be greatly enhanced in coming expansions (hopefully with expansion #1), even the above mentioned small cosmetic changes would go a long way in making planetary invasion seem like something more than an incomplete afterthought.



Just wanted to post these thoughts here so as to add my support for some much needed love to this core game mechanic. Again, I can already see that ES has come a long way - and I fully expect it to go a long way further - but the halfhearted planetary invasions really got on my nerves in the last game. lol Just a little more polish on them would satisfy me quite a bit until that first expansion is released, one that I hope addresses this core mechanic.

I also buy immediately the expansion, if you make ground combat there