Nomas wrote:
If ground combat is to implemented there is various factors that we could keep in mind. So here is my suggestions:



1. There must be buildings that give specific bonus to ground combat than the rather plain "20 defense per population". Something like bunkers or forts with specific bonuses.



2. Before each ground combat phase there can be an orbital bombardment something like MOO where you had a bombardment window where you could see how much dmg you do to the planet and how many troopers are left to defend it.



3. Troop transports can get more important role in the game. Yeah i know the idea of defenseless transports may sound strange to some but thats their job after all. To carry troops and armors to battle.



4. Each transport could carry a number of troops and a number of support units, maybe something like armors and artillery thus giving more options and diversity with the battle card system(assuming they make clone of space combat for ground combat too)



5. If carriers ever get implemented to the game they could assist by launching fighters/bombers (another battle card perhaps)



6. Big Guns like massive railguns we mentioned in another post could help in the bombardment phase (extra option perhaps because of the massive dmg it could do).



7. Like someone said give tech stealing (i miss the Moo screen where a trooper was showing you the tech you got after the attack :green

Tech stealing! How could I forget about ground assault tech stealing! *facepalm*

Ok, my thoughts on Ground Assault (Copy and pasted from a different thread of Ground Assault)



The old system should still be there, as a kind of blockade/siege where the planet will surrender given enough time, prolonged by the defenses + provisions of the planet. (Possible Extra: huge malus to defense if population is starving.) The Invasion of planets in my opinion should just add to the blockade section of the original invasion as a planet will not be able to destroy the ships in orbit and it's just either a delaying tactic or a chance to steam-roller through some poor people. It would be possible that if you invade a system and they are constantly defeating your pathetic invasion armies that it would take longer because they're winning too many battles to keep their morale up.



When you make a ground assault against someone it's because you want to finish this alot sooner then normal (and Big Explosions) so I believe the main focus on the Invading army is to remove the system's ability defend itself by removing pieces of it's MP it gained from Population and Defense improvements. The more MP removed in the invasion the less time the blockade will require to pacify the system.



The ships you have in Orbit are essentially going to be busy bombarding the military bases of the planet, there is potential to have a tactic card that uses the fleet during the battle but it shouldn't be represented in each ground assault.



As the military power for the agressor is defined by Invasion modules of the ships you build, (to add to the transport section add a new chassis that reduces tonnage cost of invason modules by 40% or something) to make the ground assault make sense in a sort of Mirror of the space combat the Invasion modules could be seperated into types:



+ Melee

+ Mid-Range

+ Long Range



For the Defending Planets there could be a 3-way slider that the empire/planet follow incase of an invasion (can't be changed during an invasion) this would also have 3 defense types, each one dedicated to resisting one of the invasion types. This would reduce the amount of extra defense improvements needed which would be annoying because the improvements you choose not to build will always be staring at you in the system screen.



In this system, the invaders are the Lasers,Kinetics and Missiles where as the Planet are using nothing but Deflectors,Shields and Flak. Obviously it'd look much better if the 'Missiles' are planes that get shot down, and the kinetics that bounce off of the 'trenches' are grunts getting shot.



This does have the problem that new modules will both make the invasion section of the ship builder much longer and there would be need for alot more space in the military tech tree (though possibly using some of the research points with single weapons)



This set-up does mean that their should be different tactic cards for defender and invaders or atleast renamed cards that are similar.



An Example from hideously stealing from the space starting cards:



Ok I'm going to call the Melee -> Infantry, Mid -> Tanks and Long -> Planes



Attacker:

Tactics: Charge! -% enemy interception of Infantry -% Damage from Tanks (Counters Engineering)

Engineering: Smokescreen -% enemy interception of Mid -% Damage from Planes (Counters Sabotage)

Sabotage: Commandos -% enemy interception of Air -% Damage from Infantry (Counters Defense)

Defense: Evasive Manuevers -% enemy interception of ALL and -% Accuracy (Counters Offense)

Offense: Stay on Target! +% enemy interception of ALL and +% Accuracy (Counters Tactics)



Defender:

Tactics: Snipers +% interception of Infantry +% Damage from Tanks (Counters Engineering)

Engineering: EMP Mines +% interception of Mid +% Damage from Planes (Counters Sabotage)

Sabotage: Blackout +% interception of Air +% Damage from Infantry (Counters Defense)

Defense: Get Down -% interception of ALL and -% Enemy Accuracy (Counters Offense)

Offense: Death or Glory +% interception of ALL and +% Enemy Accuracy (Counters Tactics)



So in summary:

Keep old 'Siege Bloackade' system.

Invasions remove MP from the defending system

Invasion Combat is purely Offense vs Defense.

Change Invasion Modules into 3 types: Melee,Mid,Long.

Will require new Combat Cards

Possible to Copy+Rename Combat cards for Offense/Defense.





Big question: Should Invasion Modules be Multi-use or 1-offs like the Colonisation module?

Any ship is an invasion transport!



How can people not get this.

Igncom1 wrote:
Any ship is an invasion transport!



How can people not get this.

If it's not carrying an invasion module it's not carrying ground assault troops, just pilots



The Space-dedicated ships can blockade the system and bombard the planets destroying their will to resist. Allowing the old, slower method to work aswell.

Yes it is, otherwise a scout ships would not be able to begin an invasion.



And the addition of invasion technology's and modules that show support systems for troops, and even game art showing ships deploying troops shows that they very much do.

Igncom1 wrote:
Yes it is, otherwise a scout ships would not be able to begin an invasion.



And the addition of invasion technology's and modules that show support systems for troops, and even game art showing ships deploying troops shows that they very much do.

Agreed. That's one of the few things that I think they kinda missed, unless they have it planned in an update or dlc.

I am personally against any kind of massive ground combat system.



To me, this is a space game, not a planet game. Its about ships and fleets, not boots on the ground.





Now, I'm don't mind some enhancements to ground combat, such as:



1) Improved visuals (some screaming audio everytime I check a system under attack would be great too).

2) Some better ground defense improvements

3) Additional invasion models for ships.





But overall, I am quite happy to be able to take systems without having to create special invasion ships, and I actually like the turn by turn slowing losing my system mechanic. My only issue is the pacing, its too slow in the early game (20 turns) and much too fast in the late game (1 turn). But in the midgame when taking a system can take 3-4 turns, that's a great mix of drama and strategy.

If basic system defense was lower and there were a few passive upgrades in each of the trees (For less military oriented empires) that might allow the games invading speed to keep progressing (without additional defenses) at a more controlled rate.

How about adding planetary defenses like planetary shielding, orbital defense satellites/missile batteries, and system wide drone ships if we are keeping it off of the surface?

Nasarog wrote:
How about adding planetary defenses like planetary shielding, orbital defense satellites/missile batteries, and system wide drone ships if we are keeping it off of the surface?

They had that in STARS!, made all the difference. Could be implemented well.

dedicated transports sacrifice weapons space for more troop-armor space. personaly I find it silly that even a small corvette can carry enough troops to invade a planet, and no its not a space battle game nor a planet invasion game its an empire build game 4x that includes conquering others so planet invasion is huge part of it and right needs some more love

Nomas wrote:
dedicated transports sacrifice weapons space for more troop-armor space. personaly I find it silly that even a small corvette can carry enough troops to invade a planet, and no its not a space battle game nor a planet invasion game its an empire build game 4x that includes conquering others so planet invasion is huge part of it and right needs some more love

I still thing every ship is a self contained city.



With corvettes being the population size of towns, and dreadnaughts possibly having up to a couple of million on board!

All suggestions for including a ground combat system are collected in the first proposal of such a system, here: /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12341-invasions-and-orbitals-strikes-alike-to-the-space-combat

This thread though does, in fact, not suggest any specific kind of ground combat system, it just discusses that there should be any.

Moved to the design discussion as a discussion.

yes. have armies clash, let us pick ground battle cards.





So we need tropps ships and troop production now.

That's what im getting at, why should there be a separate thing for this? Its unnecessary micro.

Igncom1 wrote:
That's what im getting at, why should there be a separate thing for this? Its unnecessary micro.

exactly.





Do not misunderstand me, i dig watching armies duke it out ever since MoO 2 but i think the current ES is incompatible with what amounts to a second branch of military.



You see, planetary invasions generally can go many ways:



1. Orbital strikes until the surface is wasteland of smoldering slack.

2. Focused orbital strikes prior to invasion and as needed in the invasion

3. Few to No orbital strikes (in order to not waste the planets eco system [andeveryorbitalassaultwithwhateverweaponwillunleashalotofenergywhereithasnorighttobe], and the already existing infrastructure) and a long ass campain to destroy the opfors organized forces. Not to mention the occupation related effort in garrison and.... subjugation personel.

4.) The above but with genocide on the agenda.

5.) "You may fire when ready"

6.) Subjugation by infiltration?



This would basically merrit a research tree on its own. Are our armys just "troops" or do we have types of units? tank batallions? Artillery? Air force? (and yes, having a dedicated air force on the ground is in many ways preferable to having to call down the space forces for any air strike you need...) navy? (yes. turns out that having mobile platforms able to carry heavy firepower is a good thing if there is lots of water).





I sure would love a more fleshed out ground combat but i am not sure how we can go from "colored rings" to "omg animated 3d people shooting each other *squeeeeee*



+ it will slow down multiplayer a lot, so if anything is done to expand the invasion mechanics please have the option to disable it for mp. because time you know.

Igncom1 wrote:
MOO or GalCiv way of doing it was a little strange to me, we just line up and blast each other?



Id like to see a cinematic when you win an invasion (In the style of the other ones) Of troops rolling through streets and battles throughout the city, finally your troops put your flag at the top of the capital building and victory is declared! Id like your empires technology and your fleets invasion mods to change the cinematic as well, with troops using better weapons and bombardment taking out fortifications.

Civ1 style!!! Remember when capturing a city, there was a quick cinematic played that showed your troops walking down the main street in rows. We need this

As bad as Mo03 did a lot of things - ground combat was on of the better parts IMO.



Both attacker and defender created their army of infatry, tanks and robots (the defeding on gets stationated on the planet; the attacking one is shipped with transports) When combat occurs both side choose an stratgey out of a few dozen (like massed assault, light skirmishing, ambush, flanking attack, retreat), which influences the combat (which often went over several rounds, affecting certain regions of a planet) There was no real graphical representation.



If now ES would combine a Mo02-like graphical sequence with some of the Moo3 mechanics (build-up of ground forces, choosing strategies), then I would be satisfied with GC.

mogthew wrote:
Civ1 style!!! Remember when capturing a city, there was a quick cinematic played that showed your troops walking down the main street in rows. We need this

Wow man, that takes me back! I fully agree though, Endless Space might be set in... space... but ground combat/invasions needs some attention, even if it's just a brief still picture. I was quite surprised to find out the other day that AI player X managed to capture a system from me without giving a notification. I got one when they were invading the planet but not when they had actually taken it?

mogthew wrote:
Civ1 style!!! Remember when capturing a city, there was a quick cinematic played that showed your troops walking down the main street in rows. We need this

This is what I'm talking about.