A Living Universe

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MODNosferatiel

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"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

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MODNosferatiel

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13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 4:28:46 PM

idolord wrote:
@Nosferatiel

have a problem to access those link the forum tell me inappropriate permission, i'm really intrested in the life in galaxy, nuetral race, natives species, civilisation as i have suggestion about those matter already posted

That will be resolved once the archive is set to public view. I don't have the permissions to do so, though. That will be Steph'nie who does it.

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Danne

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Danne

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 3:32:53 AM

Zep' wrote:
If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride

Pessimistic to the end, Eh Zep?

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Priizon

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Priizon

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 4:22:35 AM

I think if done by the right people, it could be interesting to have a "living" universe, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Maybe years from now, but not right now. And a game like that wouldn't be able to go very detailed with fleets and heroes and all that, considering that for a living universe to be very noticeable a large amount of time would have to go by pretty fast so your heroes and civilizations could die out or completely change, you wouldn't be able to control them in very much detail.

But as someone mentioned above, having random occurrences like supernovas and black holes would be interesting and not all that hard to implement. Maybe even do some Star Trek stuff and have your civilization advance far enough they could create black holes and plant them inside of enemy planets.

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maceman

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maceman

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 4:26:25 AM

you wanna plant what? where?!

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Danne

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Danne

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 4:54:37 AM

I hear a SONG coming on!

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Zep'

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Zep'

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 7:19:34 AM

Danne wrote:
Pessimistic to the end, Eh Zep?

Not pessimistic, realistic. As people said before me, Amplitude is not one of those AAA studios with dozens of developpers. Imho, they have better thing to work on and to create rather than trying to guess "the good interface" for such a system. Because you cannot have the good one in one shot, it takes iterations and playtests, so time and money, to have a good results.

As Prizzon said, it could be interesting to have such a "living" universe, but not now, not in Endless Space

Maybe Endless Space 3 ?

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MODNosferatiel

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"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

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MODNosferatiel

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 8:37:53 AM

SABA wrote:
Yeah! Spinning planets would look nice, though it wouldn't really bother me if they didn't. The odd comet, asteroid and solar flare would be pretty cool too.

But as for systems moving, I don't think so. I mean think about it, the moon take 's something like 23.6 hrs to orbit the earth. and 24hrs for the earth to make 1 turn, 1 year to orbit the sun and how long does the sun take to orbit the Galaxy? Unknown, but a very 100000000000000000000000ng time for sure. Its pointless trying to replicate this. The cost in memory usage for what you get is just not worth it IMHO.

That would be the galactic year and that is estimated to be about 225.000.000 years for one rotation of the sun about the galactic centre. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Motion_and_location_within_the_galaxy)

You could also calculate that to have a visible impact of differential rotation of stars about the galactic centre you would have to see this in terms of years per degree of angular movement.

For the sun that would be 625.000 years per °. I hope the game won't have that many turns. o_O

The rotation of planets around their suns, though, would be nice for the planetary system graphics. To use it in combat situations...

Wouldn't it be more realistic to just let the planets stay where they are for one battleround, because the ships are already a lot faster due to advanced technology, maybe let them and the defense rotate, but simulate the gravity of the planets?

That might give an interesting feature, because you could perform slingshot-maneuvres with your fleet on the one hand, catching the enemy fleet in the rear. On the other hand, you maybe can't attack a gas giant colony, because your massive ships don't have the engine power to withstand its gravitational attraction. You might be forced to resort to lighter ships with a better mass to thrust-ratio for such attacks.

That should be easy enough to implement. Gravity is just an 1/r^2-function with r = distance to the center of gravity (assuming all planets are homogenous balls). Then you could calculate a vectorfield with the intensity and direction of attraction for the battlefield, once, just multiply it with a value of mass for the ships and a constant, then your ships will be dragged around. That'd be quite realistic for the scales we're speaking of.

You might also need an option to automatically use some maneuver thrusters to compensate when you want your ships to stay on spot, but it might just work.

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TrashMan

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TrashMan

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 10:41:45 AM

chronicdiscord wrote:
If you think this is eye candy, you grossly underestimate the potential implications of everything moving like this - it would effect everything about the game's strategy in terms of resource gathering, colonization and warfare.

This isn't a matter of making something pretty, this could have a massive effect on how you view war - if you know that your enemy's one colony is headed roughly toward you, you can place a mine field in it's path - so long as nothing runs through it first, a sudden bombardment of mines on a planet could devastate the population of the planet and make it an easy conquest.

Place minefields in the path of planets? Wut? You got to be kidding me.

A) how do you plan to get the mines there without being detected.

B) you're giving the enemy a lot of time to clear the minefield...it takes a long time for a planet to rotate.

C) Point-defenses

D) why use expensive mines when you can launch rocks for the same effect?

The potential of everything movign only exist is the game is tailored for it. And for that it would have to take some liberties.

Motion of planets has an impact on tactical battles only if the battles take weeks or months.

It has a strategic impact only is ships travel slowly, so slingshotting and in-system voyages lasting months are the norm.

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Strobe

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Strobe

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 10:45:52 AM

A) By doing it far enough away they don't notice? Relative to the center of the galaxy, planets and systems are moving very quickly.

B) I'm pretty sure you mean revolve, but that also completely forgets that entire systems move through space just as much as planets move through their orbits

C) Mean nothing if you can't detect the object.

D) By that logic, why build ships with lasers and missiles and guns when you can launch rocks for the same effect?

tl;dr don't think so small. The game is wide open for fun ideas and concepts.

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SABA

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SABA

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 10:48:47 AM

Nosferatiel wrote:
That would be the galactic year and that is estimated to be about 225.000.000 years for one rotation of the sun about the galactic centre. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Motion_and_location_within_the_galaxy)

You could also calculate that to have a visible impact of differential rotation of stars about the galactic centre you would have to see this in terms of years per degree of angular movement.

For the sun that would be 625.000 years per °. I hope the game won't have that many turns. o_O

The rotation of planets around their suns, though, would be nice for the planetary system graphics. To use it in combat situations...

Wouldn't it be more realistic to just let the planets stay where they are for one battleround, because the ships are already a lot faster due to advanced technology, maybe let them and the defense rotate, but simulate the gravity of the planets?

That might give an interesting feature, because you could perform slingshot-maneuvres with your fleet on the one hand, catching the enemy fleet in the rear. On the other hand, you maybe can't attack a gas giant colony, because your massive ships don't have the engine power to withstand its gravitational attraction. You might be forced to resort to lighter ships with a better mass to thrust-ratio for such attacks.

That should be easy enough to implement. Gravity is just an 1/r^2-function with r = distance to the center of gravity (assuming all planets are homogenous balls). Then you could calculate a vectorfield with the intensity and direction of attraction for the battlefield, once, just multiply it with a value of mass for the ships and a constant, then your ships will be dragged around. That'd be quite realistic for the scales we're speaking of.

You might also need an option to automatically use some maneuver thrusters to compensate when you want your ships to stay on spot, but it might just work.

Yes agreed! A long time. which was my point.

Stars closer to the galactic core move a heck of a lot faster & in all directions too, but this area is out of the Goldie locks zone, as is most of scoot um crux and the other inner arms due to excessive stellar radiation. Also all the stars in the right zone all move relatively at the same rate around the core, so all you would have is static map that very very slowly rotates. What's the point of that?

One day when home PC's are capable of doing what the super computers in NASA & the JPL can do, we might be able to play a game in virtual simulated Galaxy. So all us would be astrophysicists can be happy. But until then, well I'm happy with my imagination.

With gravitational effects, I guess you could do that, but remember these ships are capable of very fast speeds on their own.

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MODNosferatiel

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"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

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MODNosferatiel

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 11:07:12 AM

SABA wrote:
With gravitational effects, I guess you could do that, but remember these ships are capable of very fast speeds on their own.

Okay, if the speed of the ships is far greater than the speed of the planets, I agree that you won't gain much by slingshot maneuvres.

The second point remains, though:

If you have very massive ships with not very much thrust (think of an Ion engine for example: low thrust, high speed at the end of acceleration) you might crash on a planet or into the sun if you come too close to gravitational danger zones.

Even worse might be fights around neutron stars or black holes, to rummage around in the dust bin of what astronomy knows for celestial objects. XD

Pirates or other players using mainly light ships with comparatively high thrust might, in such a scenario, have other attack routes through the solar system than capital ships which then have to circumvent massive celestial bodies.

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SABA

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SABA

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 11:22:57 AM

Well yes agreed, assuming that all those ships will have those characteristics. Perhaps at the start of the game they will, but I don't know.

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MODNosferatiel

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"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

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MODNosferatiel

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13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 4:00:01 PM

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idolord

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idolord

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13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 4:18:58 PM

@Nosferatiel

have a problem to access those link the forum tell me inappropriate permission, i'm really intrested in the life in galaxy, nuetral race, natives species, civilisation as i have suggestion about those matter already posted

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Strobe

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Strobe

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13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 12:09:19 AM

Actually moving celestia spacescapes is certainly something to wish for, and something to really strive for a good execution on the developer's side, but the fact of the matter remains that at present, it's a layer of ulitmately needless cosmetic layering that will do very little besides confuse players that don't know how it works exactly.

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idolord

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idolord

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13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 4:31:45 PM

ok thanks for the fast answer anyway.

fly safe.

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DEVSteph'nie

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Blah blah blah.

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DEVSteph'nie

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13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 4:33:19 PM

Nosferatiel wrote:
That will be resolved once the archive is set to public view. I don't have the permissions to do so, though. That will be Steph'nie who does it.

Tadaaa.

Edit: we're so fast, I feel like a superhero now.

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MODNosferatiel

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"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

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MODNosferatiel

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13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 4:36:19 PM

Steph'nie wrote:
Tadaaa.

Edit: we're so fast, I feel like a superhero now.

I will, too. Once I get hallucinations from moving threads around all day. o_O

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idolord

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idolord

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13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 4:45:36 PM

@Steph'nie & Nosferatiel

thanks you, your both so quick ! i'll got take a look then!

edit: are those thread locked or something i can't react on them right now.

@Nosferatiel

need an aspirin ? lol

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General_Hz

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General_Hz

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13 years ago

Jun 9, 2012, 4:45:52 PM

Waht you talking abour roatiating galaxies isn't realistic enough cause gaxyies rotrate in a very slow speed i talking about thouldsns maybe even million of years take to them t begin rotarate it doesn't happen so fast as you think but seatllites and think like that will be nice

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