Larger debuff's for refitting - Endless Space

Larger debuff's for refitting

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Velaux

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Velaux

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 18, 2012, 3:52:42 PM

Well, IMO anything with that description could do whatever it wanted given enough time. A collection of simple physical tasks becomes a complex physical task.

For any problems like exotic materials that can't be manufactured, well that's where Dust as currency comes in. So yeah, it does make sense actually

smiley: biggrin

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Jul 18, 2012, 3:56:11 PM

Don't get me wrong, based on RL nanite research it would imagine that everyone already has construction nanites for every day use, but the use of Dust helps coordinate out big, ugly stupid nanites.

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Velaux

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Velaux

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 18, 2012, 4:01:34 PM

Ah makes sense. More the mind of the nanites.

Either way, it's the one game where buying stuff instantly actually makes some sense!

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fourteenfour

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fourteenfour

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 18, 2012, 4:10:49 PM

http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/showthread.php?8356-EXPLOIT-Refitting-very-cheap-ships

See the above thread why the whole dust for refit is bad, apparently people have been using this process. Explains the activities of a friend of mine (still kicked his ass too many times to count)

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Velaux

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Velaux

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13 years ago

Jul 18, 2012, 4:17:11 PM

A system being exploited does not mean you throw out the system. That is asinine. You plug the hole, nothing more.

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Draco18s

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Draco18s

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 18, 2012, 4:21:42 PM

CmdrNoval wrote:
Retrofitting all of them would cost [...] -60% System Industry for one turn.

This is no bueno. If that was the case, I'd retrofit on my rim-worlds, the ones that have no production. I lose out on what, 3 industry for a turn? Big whoop.

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MODNosferatiel

Informer

"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

MODNosferatiel

Informer

13 years ago

Jul 20, 2012, 10:16:51 PM

You might all be interested in this old list of retrofit nerf suggestions: /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/11750-suggestion-nerf-ship-refitting

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:54:43 PM

Kinda.

I wouldn't be upset about it, its a good compromise that i can beef with.

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fourteenfour

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fourteenfour

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 5:32:22 PM

Sorry, stupid/bad idea.

If anything refits for dust should just be removed and ships forced into whichever system's build queue they are at, perhaps the whole fleet could enter the queue as a single entity. The whole idea of paying dust to magically refit a ship is silly. What I want to do is figure out how that cost is calculated. The idea of using a penalty instead of fixing the obvious silliness of the current system is just wrong.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 5:40:03 PM

I don't see how it is fair for a player to refit his fleet with a completely changed structure of modules without some kind of penalty, and the dust costing thing being weird is the same a rush buying, its been in nearly every 4x i have ever played.

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CmdrNoval

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CmdrNoval

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:07:00 PM

smiley: confused

This would kill the flow of the game. If, perse, we were to look at a change to retrofitting, this would not be it. If anything, perhaps the cost of retrofitting (in Dust) could be modified...

to Devs: Perhaps in addition to Dust, some Industry cost could be added. Example: The System the fleet is being retrofitted in would lose 10% Industry for one turn.

This could be further complicated by adding this extra cost on a 'per ship' basis. Example: Your fleet contains 6 ships. Retrofitting all of them would cost you "X" amount of Dust & -60% System Industry for one turn.

This mod would not kill the flow of the game, and still provide some additional costs to retrofitting.

Using an Industry Cost makes sense, as the System would have to use it's labor force to perform the upgrades...

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:09:30 PM

How would it kill the flow of the game? you can still refit but you get a penalty from it (The same penalty from if using the first power module) If anything making it cost industry would kill the flow!

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CmdrNoval

Newcomer

CmdrNoval

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:19:46 PM

2 things that I see that will kill the flow:

Subtracting an HP makes for weaker fleets. The whole point of retrofitting is to make them stronger.

Having your fleets idle is a BAD thing. 2 Turns per CP would turn your systems into parking lots

(also making them sitting ducks, if you are attacked)

Adding the Industry cost would slow things down (what I figure you are going for)

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Velaux

Newcomer

Velaux

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:25:57 PM

It costs money. Make it cost more money if it isn't enough. Nothing else is needed.

The ability to blow lots of money to suddenly counter your enemy is nice.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:29:49 PM

They can still shoot back, but you cant move them between systems.

Besides, the point of refitting it to make ships stronger to changing conditions, the decrease to HP equalizes the fleet so you not just buying power.

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Spero42

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Spero42

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:34:15 PM

I like the MOO2 method of adding the ships to system queues for refit. They always cost a lot less than a brand new ship (a turn or two), but didn't necessarily cost money unless you rushed it.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:34:53 PM

Velaux wrote:
It costs money. Make it cost more money if it isn't enough. Nothing else is needed.

The ability to blow lots of money to suddenly counter your enemy is nice.

And completely unfair, just spending money to counter an opponent just brakes the entire point of strategy and planning.

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CmdrNoval

Newcomer

CmdrNoval

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:37:17 PM

If, let's say, you retrofit a fleet 5 times over the course of a 300 turn game, your fleet's base HP would drop over 67%... you might as well throw a scout at them...

(Provided, of course, that a fleet survives from the beginning to the 300th Turn, which is understandably unlikely)

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CmdrNoval

Newcomer

CmdrNoval

Newcomer

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:39:11 PM

Spero42 wrote:
I like the MOO2 method of adding the ships to system queues for refit. They always cost a lot less than a brand new ship (a turn or two), but didn't necessarily cost money unless you rushed it.

And this upgrading in M002 costs Production (Industry) instead of cash...

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Jul 17, 2012, 6:39:56 PM

Or you know, build more ships, refitting like this basically throws away any form of strategy, or planning. It says that i have money, so it doesn't matter what i do with my fleet till you attack, one turn and boom! Your fleet is worthless.

Its a stupid cheese tactic, and it it were up to me i would remove it from the game completely.

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