This game is played on humankind difficulty. I had a slow start, did not use auto explore or any exploit, the only thing I did manage to get was an independent city but that was maybe turn 30 or something. I got stuck in many wars with the player now in the bottom of the fame table as I managed to defeat that player and eventually capture their cities. I have been ahead of the ai since atleast ancient era, I did get gold in everything in ancient which may explain my fame lead, but should not the ai bonuses on humankind difficulty make it hard to build up a 1k fame lead against second place this early into the game?

Here are the fame graphs and advacement times for all players:

This is me, I got all 21 fame stars in ancient era and is now in classical era and have a significant fame lead over all other players.

Third place player right now, didi very well in fame early but have slowed down alot in classical and medieval

The player I fought war with and defeated, thus their fame growth and era advacement have stagnated.

This player lead the fame race in the early stage of the game before losing the lead in classical era and falling all behind to 5th place.

Second place player, have manage to reach early modern but is still a thousand fame behind me, even though I'm just in classical.

The 4th place player, we see the normal trend of doing well in ancient but slowing down or stagnating in classical and medieval.

From what I can see the ai players do really well in ancient era, but in classical and beyond their ability to gather fame seems to diminish, maybe because the bonuses don't make up for the more demanding requirements of later eras. They also seems to advance very quickly through the eras, thus they don't have time to build up the economy needed for the next era to get the era stars requirements, thus they maybe manage a few bronze stars per era and thus fall far behind players who aim for the gold stars.

to me it seems that AI advances era as soon as it can despite there still might be stuff to do. It's the same thing that players have: FOMO (fear of missing out). In order to secure the culture they want they advance when they can. I on the other hand mostly advance when my research tree is decently close to completion in that era.

I agree, AI does kinda well in ancient, sometimes it advances into classical before me. then at the medieval it goes downhill.

AI doesn't understand that it's being close to an era star so it's more benefical to wait a couple more turn for those extra districts etc but advances at the first opporunity.

I think you might have had a fluke here, for me playing on humankind difficulty a good portion of the AI shoot up their fame into the stratosphere early on in the ancient era, and I am often too bogged down in wars with aggressive neighbors to keep up on fame in the early/mid game. And its only in the late game that I can start to catch up as the AI seems to get worse over time. The AI is very dumb but cheats heavily so I think that favors them in the early game but falls off over time.

I have continued the game, as can be seen on the screenshot, the gap between the player and the ai is growing much larger as the ai ability to gain fame, or even advance stagnate once they get to early modern. I have played rather poorly, gotten into a pretty pointless war which cause a huge stability problem due to loss of trade, not done well in technology or really anything, but I'm still getting further and further ahead of the ai.

Here is the save of the game if someone want to check if there is anything strange going on Spanish.ctr

No doubt that IA players don't "think" . they don't have long terms goals and they don't "wait" in a any era for more fame. they rush era trying to pick best cultures before you.

But their their bonus are huge, as you can see :

-50% time to convert territories to religion / culture (rounded up)
-70% population food consumption
+25% science
+10 industry per population
+30 industry, money and food
+30 stability
-80% unit upkeep
-60% buyout cost
+10 fortification
+2 combat strength on units

And , for more challenge, you can pick "expert" IA personalies.

With such massive bonuses I would expect the ai do alot better, right now it greatly slows down post ancient era.

Hey guys,

In higher difficulties, AIs actually try and wait to earn some more fame stars. They try to estimate the number of turns required until they can earn a star, and if that duration is acceptable, they wait. But unlike human players, they will not farm all of them or create specific situations allowing them to farm these specific stars (like going to war with someone simply for the militaristic stars), it will also systematically advance if it has no more technologies to research. What do you guys think? Is this approach is a systematic loss?

AIs that are far behind with their fame will also move on right away to try and get that edge on other empires, with a new trait, a new emblematic quarter, and a new emblematic unit. Do you think in some cases it's better to wait when far behind everyone else?

Also, we have found out (much like you guys) that AIs tend to struggle in the later eras, mainly due to their poor use of emblematic quarters and management of stability.
We are working on improving AI performance in the later eras, and hopefully, make it more competitive for the expert players out there :)

Cheers everyone, and once again thanks a lot for the feedback.

Chocossimo wrote:

Hey guys,

In higher difficulties, AIs actually try and wait to earn some more fame stars. They try to estimate the number of turns required until they can earn a star, and if that duration is acceptable, they wait. But unlike human players, they will not farm all of them or create specific situations allowing them to farm these specific stars (like going to war with someone simply for the militaristic stars), it will also systematically advance if it has no more technologies to research. What do you guys think? Is this approach is a systematic loss?

AIs that are far behind with their fame will also move on right away to try and get that edge on other empires, with a new trait, a new emblematic quarter, and a new emblematic unit. Do you think in some cases it's better to wait when far behind everyone else?

Also, we have found out (much like you guys) that AIs tend to struggle in the later eras, mainly due to their poor use of emblematic quarters and management of stability.
We are working on improving AI performance in the later eras, and hopefully, make it more competitive for the expert players out there :)

Cheers everyone, and once again thanks a lot for the feedback.

I came in to post that I have noticed that the AI does wait in higher difficulties to move up. I am playing ok I believe empire right now. Me and this other AI who has a thousand fame lead over me are basically just chilling in era 5 as everyone is just behind us. It seems they realize I am building up a lot of fame as well sitting in the era and they are probably gonna advance when they get all the stars or wait to see if I move up to the next ers. They are ok another continant and can't see me or I them but I am sure they recognize me as a rival. Not sure what cultures they have chosen.

Oh and while I have you here, is it possible to add what cultures each nation chose to the end screen? Would be interesting to see what cultures everyone changed into as they advznced in the game. 

If AI just shoots up an era once finishing up available tech, then it just can't handle boost to their research. That would explain why I regularly see stronger AI Personas go for anything between 10 and 15 stars in Ancient/Classical and then starting to rush with 7-8 and how Industrial French (whoever chose them) seem to start pumping the fame again.

If anything, I'd like them to do more 'irrational' wars. AIs tend to just sit around in later eras, maybe they should be told that some stars are farm-able, at least the militaristic one ;)

@Chocossimo

I already created a topic regarding how the AI's issues with stability literally lead to their empire breaking down. When they enter the Stability Spiral they can no longer build any non-Stability related buildings and districts which leads them to falling behind and losing territory to rebels. You need to improve on the AI's logic when placing Commons Quarters and to allow them to build more garrisons.

Regarding getting Fame stars the AI should focus on getting a few golden stars. To alleviate the issue with nothing to research at the end of an era, you can include some bridge tech between each era that simply gives Fame or other benefits. You might also want to tone down the amount of Research you can receive from Osmosis events, sometimes they can give you from 30 to 50% of what you need for the current technology you are researching.

On the topic of stars, the AI should value more Militaristic stars and try to start small wars or at least skirmishes to get them. The idea here is that they can also earn a few territories or gold from ransacking which will help them get stars in the other categories. Another suggestion would be to also count destroyed districts from ransacking or bombardment towards the military stars.

You might also want to balance the number of territories required for Expansionist stars or at the least make them scale with Map size.

In the Contemporary Era the AI should have a plan B if it is so far behind you, maybe create a Coalition of alliances and try to limit you ? In general you can get the most Fame of any Era in Era 6 and they should at least try to limit your progress.

Just like Amplitude, the AI assumes it is a good idea to transition after earning 7-9 stars.

I'm just a beginner and should not do so well on the highest difficulty, but since the ai basically stop playing after like classical era and with each era it simply get worse, I was still able to win at the end.

Oh so you guys actually wait for stars ? :) Because I'm like the AI , I rush my next era almost as soon as it opens except neolithic and that does not prevent me from winning in HK difficulty.

Karmah wrote:

Oh so you guys actually wait for stars ? :) Because I'm like the AI , I rush my next era almost as soon as it opens except neolithic and that does not prevent me from winning in HK difficulty.

Yes because Im a beginner at the game.

Chocossimo wrote:

Hey guys,

In higher difficulties, AIs actually try and wait to earn some more fame stars. They try to estimate the number of turns required until they can earn a star, and if that duration is acceptable, they wait. But unlike human players, they will not farm all of them or create specific situations allowing them to farm these specific stars (like going to war with someone simply for the militaristic stars), it will also systematically advance if it has no more technologies to research. What do you guys think? Is this approach is a systematic loss?

AIs that are far behind with their fame will also move on right away to try and get that edge on other empires, with a new trait, a new emblematic quarter, and a new emblematic unit. Do you think in some cases it's better to wait when far behind everyone else?

Also, we have found out (much like you guys) that AIs tend to struggle in the later eras, mainly due to their poor use of emblematic quarters and management of stability.
We are working on improving AI performance in the later eras, and hopefully, make it more competitive for the expert players out there :)

Cheers everyone, and once again thanks a lot for the feedback.

Good to know you are working on the AIs late game.
Rather than making the AI farm more for fame by waiting around, you could just simply boost their fame gain.

How much do good players or players in general get in average on higher difficulties?
If u have access to finished game statistics you could simply look at the fame values players finish games at and boost the AIs fame gain to be closer to that if u want to make the games closer in fame.
I can only speak for the gamespeed (Endless) I've played myself right now, but against the Humankind-difficulty AI it's fairly easy to finish with 19-24k fame before the AI had any chance to end the game.

Not sure if it's a good design or not..
I'd imagine the game being fairly difficult, if you achieve a state where the AI matches our era and upgrades their units to match that era to be difficult to fight against. At the same time with boosted fame gains the player is required to play fairly well to win. Maybe?

Gods I must suck. Because by the time I reach late Medieval the AI already has several hundred fame more than me. Hell the last game I just played early modern ere I was head by several hundred building a Wonder, the AI gained 600+ fame in one turn to take the lead. What?

StealthBlue wrote:

Gods I must suck. Because by the time I reach late Medieval the AI already has several hundred fame more than me. Hell the last game I just played early modern ere I was head by several hundred building a Wonder, the AI gained 600+ fame in one turn to take the lead. What?

You can check the save file I posted and compare it with your games. Maybe you find if there is any difference between ai in my game and your games?

StealthBlue wrote:

Gods I must suck. Because by the time I reach late Medieval the AI already has several hundred fame more than me. Hell the last game I just played early modern ere I was head by several hundred building a Wonder, the AI gained 600+ fame in one turn to take the lead. What?

This might be because you took too long in Neolithic and as a result were slower during the first three eras compared to the Earning 600 fame is not that strange, the AI probably had three or four stars silver and gold stars that were very close to being completed and they fulfilled all of them in a single turn.

Chocossimo wrote:

Hey guys,

In higher difficulties, AIs actually try and wait to earn some more fame stars. They try to estimate the number of turns required until they can earn a star, and if that duration is acceptable, they wait. But unlike human players, they will not farm all of them or create specific situations allowing them to farm these specific stars (like going to war with someone simply for the militaristic stars), it will also systematically advance if it has no more technologies to research. What do you guys think? Is this approach is a systematic loss?

AIs that are far behind with their fame will also move on right away to try and get that edge on other empires, with a new trait, a new emblematic quarter, and a new emblematic unit. Do you think in some cases it's better to wait when far behind everyone else?

Also, we have found out (much like you guys) that AIs tend to struggle in the later eras, mainly due to their poor use of emblematic quarters and management of stability.
We are working on improving AI performance in the later eras, and hopefully, make it more competitive for the expert players out there :)

Cheers everyone, and once again thanks a lot for the feedback.

There is also the military aspect that AI can't manage.Because of the poor economic management  AI won't make enough units for war.If it even does(usually if one AI snowballs),it's mostly against aircraft,tanks vs medieval units. AI needs to upgrade it's units if it needs to stand a chance against human player. I hope you are looking into this issue as well.