PotatoesAreBland wrote:

I assume that's just for AI games? Or does it allow multiple players to play the same faction? Because as a board gamer I definitely can appreciate the 'pick from the card row' gameplay but yes I hope they can make this an option. 

I am not sure if your post was in response to mine, but if it was, I've used it in multiplayer games with AIs included. Some of the AIs pick a culture another AI has already chosen, and this hasn't caused any problems. Human players can also choose a culture an AI or human player has picked already.

Cristata wrote:

Sublustris wrote:

Lower the difficulty if you can't keep up or lead ahead.

I have to agree with this.

If you want things to go perfectly in a game for you and want no challenge play a lower difficulty setting. The race to a chosen culture vs the decision to fame farm is a unique aspect in this 4x compared to others. I don't think it should be changed, and I don't think developer time needs to be wasted on developing some sort of, all cultures for the human mode. There are plenty of things actually important to fix.

To me this complaint sounds about as valid as "I lost a city during a war. That wasn't part of MY plan, so I'll rage quit and complain about the game."

Exactly. Correct me if I am wrong, but sometimes I feel that some "contamination" from the horrible spoiling that Civ 6 introduced in the 4X arena is spilling over... what is that spoiling? Easy wins. They appealed to the mass market by making the game winnable by anyone at "Deity" level... which reminds me of that genius Randian scene in The Incredibles...

"Everyone is special, Dash"... which means no one is.

So, no, some of us came to Humankind because we don't want everyone to be special, not even us. We want to "lose" once in a while, even partially (losing the race to the preferred culture, i.e.), and have to adapt to that, so that when the next time we get the culture we wanted, it feels earned. That is what strategy gaming is all about, and that is what it used to be before the Instant Gratification generations took over.

As an example: the most gaming fun I have had in the last 15 years, at least, happened right here in HK last week. I had to self-vassalize, for the first time in a lifetime of gaming, to the Huns because that was my only way to survive that game (Civilization level). So I did, and devised a plan to come back and free myself from the SoBs and take some more. I had to adapt to the new conditions as a vassal, take the Romans instead of my preferred culture, and build back up. In the meanwhile, the Huns became the Mongols, making their position even stronger; and they had considerable occupation forces in the occupied southern territories, which they left guarding after the War of Vassalization. Long story short: the war of liberation came, it was long and hard, but the Roman forces prevailed after a great, super fun battle in a river valley. Revenge came thanks to the execution of a plan from a losing position.

THAT is 4X.

We don't want another Civ 6 where "everything" is possible so that the "new" audience can indulge... what is next? Vampires?

Sublustris wrote:

Elteras wrote:

I think your reply was not very helpful. OP is criticizing an aspect of game design that contradicts what the game is supposed to be about. Your solutions, instead of dealing with the design flaws stated, instead assumes that it is a skill/difficulty issue and completely ignores the purpose of why OP posted in the first place.

The whole premise and strength of humankind's take on the genre is that;
1:  Unlike civilization, players get to choose and explore the benefits of different cultures in a game to craft one that best suits their preferences.
2: Unlike civilization, humankind's fame mechanic means that games are not just about a race to the finish like a science victory but about amassing prestige for as long and as much as is possible.

The current way the gameplay is designed contradicts the unique selling points of humankind. Namely, unlike how the game was touted to be, players do not really get to choose if they did not play the game like a race. Meaning in theory although the game was not designed to be a rush, if you want to have your pick of cultures you have to play it like it is a race, making the fame mechanic redundant.

I think your reply was not very helpful. OP doesn't criticize anything (in a constructive way), he states he can't play the game differently. Which is natural, because frankly, it is different game to that he used to play. This isn't a design flaw at all, this is entirely different design. As was already mentioned - you either pick cultures first, or limit your options as a trade off for fame farming.

It is 4X, dude, it IS the race. 

AOM wrote:

Oh, my. A person who is actually suggesting that a game be fun for the player rather than saying the player should just get on the stick and be a better player to be able to enjoy the game.

It is fun, you just suck at it. So do I, but at least I try to do better at it, and that is where fun comes from.

"It is 4X, dude, it IS the race. "
Here is a quote from Executive producer Jean-Maxime Moris "Fame is basically going to reward you for every great deed that you accomplish, every discovery that you make, every wonder you build. All these ways that you can leave your mark on history. This is really about the journey through history, not the destination."

This is the evidence for the purpose of fame as a mechanic, putting emphasis on the full journey and not the destination. Your claim that it is about the race has been proven false.

The following key takeaways from Wccftech's interview with the game developers show that the freedom to choose and customize cultures was supposed to be a key feature of the game and unfortunately that freedom to pick cultures does not exist unless one prioritizes rushing through the eras. That is in stark contradiction to the original goal of humankind developers to focus on the journey and not the destination.

"

• One million civilizations - Create your own unique civilization by combining 60 different historical cultures from across the heritage of humanity. Begin as Ancient Egypt, then evolve into the Romans, the Khmers, or perhaps the Vikings. The choice is up to you. Each culture brings its own special gameplay layer, leading to near-endless outcomes.
• More than history, it's your story - Face real historical events and figures, make great scientific discoveries, and visit the wonders of the world. Shape your people's beliefs and confront other players. Every decision you make adds a flourish to your story.
• In the eyes of posterity - The journey matters more than destination. Fame is a new and unifying victory condition. Every great deed you accomplish, every moral choice you make, every battle won will build your fame and leave a lasting impact on the world. The player with the most fame will win the game.
  "

"This isn't a design flaw at all, this is entirely different design." Since you did not offer a rebuttal on the contradicting aspects of game design I have raised earlier and have provided no evidence for your points I will consider this point false.

"It is fun, you just suck at it. So do I, but at least I try to do better at it, and that is where fun comes from."
You have exposed your elitist mentality by trying to attributing every design complaint to players "sucking" at the game. Your refusal to consider the real reasons why people raise these issues and insistence that it is a "noob player issue" is dishonest and unfortunate.

Elteras wrote:
This is the evidence for the purpose of fame as a mechanic, putting emphasis on the full journey and not the destination. Your claim that it is about the race has been proven false.

Uhm, no? You are still racing for fame. Whatever is said in promotional materials, 4X is 4X.

Elteras wrote:
and unfortunately  that freedom to pick cultures does not exist

That is still possible even with limited choice. You aren't left with always same cultures in pool.

Elteras wrote:
I will consider this point false.

"You can stay in your own little dream world" ©SH3

Elteras wrote:
You have exposed your elitist mentality

As if there is something bad in it :D

Souls-like games are liked for a reason. There is only one level of difficulty, all players are out in equal position, game doesn't cater to player's pleads he can't play it the way he wants. And fun comes from taking the challenge and mastering the game. 4X games are a lot closer to those in nature, then to some casual simulators or sandboxes. You are supposed to learn the game sooner or later. Different games work for different people, this is fine if this game is not your cup of tea.

Adding option to reserve culture in advance will hinder the game. Current design decisions should conform to it, then all future too! And hey, your way of "fun" should not come at the cost of mine. I mean it in a broad sense, not personal.

Anyway, solutions are already present, at lowest difficulties AI waits for you to pick up culture first, then AOM said there's a mod to pick from whole culture pool.

Zenicetus wrote:

Another option besides reserving a culture would be allowing culture duplication. An AI already picked Greece? Well, you can pick it too if you want. 

Your Greek culture might encounter its first neighbor as another Greek culture, but you're not going to be picking exactly the same development path, and it's not unheard of for neighboring civilizations in history to have a shared culture until they diverge, or are absorbed. This would probably only work for the first era out of the Neolithic, since it would feel weird in later eras to find your same culture way on the other side of the map. 

But then people would just end up picking the same OP cultures over and over, and there goes diversity. If anything, the best way is simple, just make the ai not pick the same cultures all the time.

coolgrandma1962 wrote:

The attitude of this thread is ridiculously hostile. It is absolutely fine to defend the design of how cultures work - it is absolutely intentional and I agree that it is good and interesting. The player failing to set up their perfect path through the game, I think, is good and makes for a more interesting experience. However, it is completely unnecessary to be talking down to the OP (or any player who talks badly of a mechanic) and suggesting that a game option would be 'wasted development time'. Introducing a game option that people will use and enjoy is not wasted just because you do not use it or because it nullifies other core game features. These games are meant to be played many many times, and in such a case players benefit more from the game meeting them where we're at than ensuring every player experiences the game within intended and designed-for conditions.

Alternatively, instead of simply saying "lol get good noob, lower the difficulty or play another game" perhaps these players could help the OP how to get the culture the OP wants, or help the OP understand the mechanics, if these people would do that instead of shooing and waving new players or players who dont understand mechanics off, perhaps this game would not have a mixed review rating on steam.

Oh mighty PUSSY-EATER-ONE-O-ONE, who started this thread, please, forgive me my impoliteness!

I now recognize you are first day on the internet, played your first game ever and decided to give honest feedback.

I acknowledge that my arrogant actions here are a sole reason for game to receive Mixed rating and all newcomers are now running miles away, panicking and screaming.

To atone for my sins I will go and commit Sudoku.